3bm103

I agree with both those statements. I also don't have to allow or encourage them to have sex in order to discuss what I feel is an appropriate time for them to engage in that activity safely.

China

"I also don't have to allow or encourage them to have sex in order to discuss what I feel is an appropriate time for them to engage in that activity safely."

Sigh........comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. Different "activities" involve different methods and discussions. I also don't need to allow or encourage him to speed on the highway in order for him to learn about that (because at some point in time, he might exceed the speed limit.) We've had discussions about all sorts of dangerous/risky things. I think the alcohol situation is very specific, and I'm sticking with my opinion on my method being the best way for my child. I totally agree with all of the posters who are saying this is a very personal decision for people who need to do what is right for their family.

alwaysamom

Our approach was similar to that of MichaelNKat's, described above. We modelled responsible drinking and our open communications with our children included many discussions on the topic, over many years. When they were in their mid-teens, we would allow them a small glass of wine with dinner or maybe a glass of beer on a hot summer day while barbecuing. The forbidden fruit approach rarely, if ever, works. I think that's evident at every college with the binge rates.

The drinking age here in Ontario is 19. I would actually prefer that it were 18 so that college kids could legally go to a pub with friends and legally have a beer with dinner. The need to 'pre-drink' in the dorms would then, most likely, disappear. Having had kids attend college in both countries, anecdotally, the system works better here with the lower drinking age. The legal drinking age of 21 doesn't work to prevent underage kids from drinking. That much is crystal clear.

Hunt

It seems to me that if you base your objection to underage drinking strictly on the fact that it is illegal, you can't really criticize parents who legally give their children alcohol, or children who drink when they visit jurisdictions where it is legal for them to drink.

I would criticize somebody who let their kid drive on the highway at age 14--but if it were legal for them to let the kid drive on private property, I can't see why I would complain if they wanted to start teaching the kid at 14.

To me the difficult question here is whether mature behavior with regard to alcohol is better taught with education plus some controlled drinking in high school, or with just education in high school followed by the kid going off to college. I really don't know.

China

"To me the difficult question here is whether mature behavior with regard to alcohol is better taught with education plus some controlled drinking in high school, or with just education in high school followed by the kid going off to college. I really don't know."

I totally agree and I definitely don't really "know" either. I just think that some of the people responding seem to imply that the way I handled it was just plain bad - for every kid in every circumstance. (Maybe I'm reading too much in to it, but people throwing around the word "illegal," comparing it to encouraging them to have sex, and talking about foster children being taken away are pretty negative and wide-reaching comments.) The people who are somewhat in agreement with me seem to also agree that it's got to be based on a case by case situation however is best for the individual. (And I'm not saying people shouldn't disagree with me. I'm just saying that people shouldn't make such harsh judgments about the implications of how I handled it. Come on, you have to admit that a lot of the posts do sound a little judgmental.)

Zimmer07

We shared wine at dinner with our kids and these days as young adults, they could take it or leave it. They also prefer not to have a drink with their dinner if they have to drive afterward. Guess it depends on the kid and family dynamics. We aren't big drinkers and never say things like, "What a day, I need a drink!", haha. They also had been present at neighborhood parties where someone's parent would overindulge... getting a first hand look at how embarrassing a normally respectable person can be when drunk. Also, during a party a few years back, one friend's dad showed off his new sportscar to another friend's mom and crashed the car, leaving the mom a quadraplegic. So, all in all, I'd like to think they understand that a drink/glass of wine can be a wonderful complement to a meal, but overindulging is stupid.

Northstarmom

China,
I'd be interested in your addressing the research that I posted in post #4 about the impact of parents allowing kids to drink at home just like you have done.

China

Northstarmom - everything in that research may be totally true (although I find you can usually locate "studies" that will contradict whatever particular "study" being referenced.)

The main thing I would say: The statistics there are specifically about drinking BEFORE age 15. I would NEVER encourage my kids to drink at that young age. Even my son's personal drinking escapade was not before 15; it was at 16. When we allowed him to drink in controlled situation he was a senior in h.s. - either 18 years old or very close to it. I'm not sure why anyone thought I might be advocating allowing a child to drink at a very young age. My original post is pretty specific about the ages/times of his life.

midmo

Personally, I have never had the desire to encourage my children to drink at any age. The decision to use substances that alter brain chemistry and function is a decision best made by adults, in my opinion. The notion that teenagers should be allowed to have a couple of beers during a family barbeque because no barbeque is complete without alcohol just seems odd to me.

I grew up around alcohol. Three of my grandparents died at any early age because of excess use of the stuff. I grew up at a bar, literally--my mother owned and operated a blue-collar bar and I lived in the apartment upstairs and worked there from the time I was 15, as did my siblings. I'm not a teetotaler, but I'm close to it as a result of close observation of how stupidly people act when they have consumed even a moderate amount of alcohol. Alcohol is not some mysterious, attractive rite of passage into adulthood. It has the potential to wreck one's life and health, and I've been careful not to give my children the idea that booze is some wondrous substance that must be a part of their social lives.

Someone above repeated the age-old nonsense that parents who claim their teenagers don't drink are fooling themselves. I can state with certainty that my highschoolers did not, and do not, drink. Dead certain, thank you.

07DAD

As an alcoholic in recovery, in parenting I was very direct and detailed in the dark side of alcohol and what it does to the body and spirit if abused. As a lawyer, I was able to detail what I had seen happen to people who drank and to the intended and unintended victims of their drinking.

I made sure to point out the incidents when we were exposed to drunken behavior. At least to my knowledge, my S did not drink before college. I provided him the statistics on the age of first consumption of alcohol (etc) and pointed out that alcohol dependancy was reported by a very small fraction when the age of first consumption was 21 or over.

S turned 21 last month. I will be interested to see if he drinks.

China

"Someone above repeated the age-old nonsense that parents who claim their teenagers don't drink are fooling themselves. I can state with certainty that my highschoolers did not, and do not, drink. Dead certain, thank you."

That's wonderful and I definitely would not doubt you. However, I can "state with certainty" that I personally know people who would make that same bold claim, and I know for a fact that they are wrong. (I'm not saying that is the case with you and your child; I'm just saying.......)

Also, I truly NEVER say NEVER and NEVER state that anything is definitively true unless it is about my own past behavior and I really know it for a fact. I don't like to even comment on future behavior - 'cause you never know!

alwaysamom

midmo, I don't appreciate you totally twisting what I said. If that is what you deduced from my previous post, then perhaps you need to reread it.

Hunt

In teaching our kids about alcohol, I think it's important to remember that both of the following are true:
1. Alcohol is a mind-altering substance, and overuse can destroy lives.
2. Alcohol use is a highly common social activity in our culture, and is accepted as normal and moral behavior by millions of people.

China

alwaysamom - I think that's what is bothering me a little with some of the posts. It's like the folks who disagree just want to make it seem inherently evil or bad or immoral. I don't feel that I suggested anything irresponsible in any of my posts, but people are "twisting" it to make it sound as though I'm buying my kid kegs of beer to drink with his friends on school nights and encouraging him to drink when he has absolutely no desire! Oh yea - and then I usually give him the car keys so he can do a little drunk driving and I offer up my bedroom so he can entertain a female friend.

We too modeled responsible behavior and no one in our house is setting a bad example. There are actually times when consuming alcohol is appropriate and acceptable (unless they've brought back prohibition and didn't tell me.) We constantly had open discussions about all sorts of issues.

And that's wonderful to all the people who have kids who had no desire to and never drank in h.s. If that's what mine chose, it would have been absolutely fine with me. That's not the case however, and because we have a close and open relationship, they always felt comfortable talking to me about what goes on in their lives.

Personally, I felt your post was thoughtful and rational. I actually thought you said what I was thinking/had done better than I did. My approach was very similar to both yours and MichaelNKat's.

pk92

Anecdotally, in cultures where alcohol is consumed as part of a "normal and routine life", for example in much of western Europe where wine is served with most meals, young college going adults tend to binge drink less.

As a parent of a high schooler, I have struggled with the notion of introducing my kid to wine, beer, or a mixed drink, but so far have refrained. My gut tells me that at some point I want my kid to first experience these in moderation at home and under supervision, rather than in the company of college compatriots with no supervision, and possibly in excess.