Nrdsb4

JHS, I can kind of see where you're coming from. When I look at some of the college kids I know who've gotten in trouble (not necessarily legal trouble) with abusing alcohol, I can look to their parents and see that they come from all kinds of families similar to those represented here. They have parents who legally allowed them to drink at home in an effort to allow them to feel out how their bodies react. They come from families with a rigid "you should never drink as it's nothing but trouble" attitude. They come from homes where the 21 age is held as a non-negotiable point. They come from homes where moderate, responsible drinking has been modeled for their entire lives. They come from homes where parents tell them it's against the law for them to drink before 21 here, so that principle will be followed no matter what country they are visiting, etc. They come from families where they have had years of nonjudgmental dialogues about the dangers of drinking. They come from families where the parents talk the talk but their own behavior says otherwise. All of these kids who go to college and drink, drink too much, or even outright binge drink come from all of these types of families. It seems to come down to the individual kid. I'm realizing that no matter how we handle it, the kids will do what they want when they get to college, possibly in complete contrast to the way they were raised.

For me, it's kind of a helpless feeling, but all any of us can do is follow our gut, do what we feel is best for our family and hope for the best. And we need to rid ourselves of arrogance and an unflinching belief that our kids would not turn their backs on a lifetime of teaching. None of us really know what is going on when we're not around, I don't care what your kids tell you to your face. I've known great kids who came from wonderful, loving homes where they had open communication and honest dialogues throughout their adolescence who've gone off to college and engaged in illegal underage drinking. And lied about it to their parents because they didn't want to disappoint them.

It's actually a very scary thing. I won't pretend to think I've "succeeded" with my kids. I hope they have absorbed enough common sense to keep them safe and healthy into adulthood, but I don't think we can ever know that for sure.

edad

I really don't see how it is possible to teach kids to drink but to avoid the tendency to overdrink or to overcome any biological tendencies towards alcohol addiction.

I guess if we used the same logic we should be able to teach our kids how to use drugs moderately and avoid abuse and addiction. Should we first start with a little pot smoking and maybe some uppers and downers? In my upper middle class neighborhood, heroin addiction among grade school kids has become a serious problem. Do you think we could teach our kids to avoid this problem if we supervised less dangerous drug use?

Sorry, I don't buy any of these arguments. Addictions are serious and frightening. The best way to avoid addictions is to avoid addictive substances.

doschicos

China - I agree with the merit of your strategy and plan to employ a similiar plan with my own children - letting them have an occasional glass of wine at a family dinner, etc. in their late teens. I would hope to teach them responisble drinking & moderation. It was the same strategy my own parents empoyed with me and my siblings many moons ago.

However, if we had a family history of alcoholism, I would take a different tack and probably would encourage them to not drink at all.

EMM1

"I really don't see how it is possible to teach kids to drink but to avoid the tendency to overdrink or to overcome any biological tendencies towards alcohol addiction."

I don't have any clear answers but it strikes me as odd that many of the "no, no, never" group would reject the abstinence-only theory of sex education as a product of rigid right wing ideology. Frankly, I think you have a better chance of keeping underage children from having sex than of keeping them from drinking. I can't quote chapter and verse, but I think the statistics bear me out on this point.

vossron

Breaking any law should be a conscious decision, made when aware and accepting of the consequences. Speeders do this daily. We should say when we think a law is dumb, but also say what happens when we are caught breaking it. If only teenagers realized that they can be caught.

07DAD

EMM1--if you want a real jolt go look at the stats on alcohol use and age of first pregnancy. Seems alcohol is a common theme in teen and pre-teen pregnancy.

Nah--for sex the kids only have to find the time and place. For drinking, it requires time, place and access to the technically illegal, but morally and culturally acceptible, hooch (unless the parent makes it available for responsible underage drinking-- you know, as a social lubricant)

alh

Yes. I followed the model of my own parents, who started giving me a small glass of wine when I graduated to the "grown-up" table at holidays. My parents did not drink daily but did have cocktail parties and I was allowed to attend as a highschooler, but never had more than one drink. Before my first fraternity party (while still in hs) my parents sat with me in the family room and over the course of an evening mixed and gave me drinks (gin and tonics?) until I could no longer walk a straight line. They wanted to be sure I understood how, and in what small quantity, alcohol would affect me. They also offered suggestions about what to drink so as not to have a horrible hangover. The drinking age was 18 back then. They told me to call if I ever needed a ride home.

The only real difference with my own kids was that they only drank at home (or abroad) until 21 (as far as I know) and we talked a lot more about the importance of designated drivers.

How are kids supposed to learn to drink responsibly? I do not at all care for the big blow out 21 birthday everyone gets so drunk they can't stand up celebration.

Hunt

Well, sure. But how realistic is that if you plan for your kid to live in this culture? The vast majority of Americans drink, at least socially. To me, this is like telling your kid that he should never speed, not even one mph over the speed limit. Sure, you're right about that--but few people would think that it is likely that their kid will, in fact, never speed even 1 mph over the speed limit.
I wonder if some folks think, "If I tell my kid to never, ever drink even a single drop of alcohol, maybe that will result in him at least drinking less."

vossron

Our kids grew up watching us drink a glass of wine with dinner daily; they got a sip of champagne on New Year's Eve, and a sip of wine here and there. One (over 21) now drinks moderately on occasion, one (under 21) likes the yearly champagne less and less, usually leaving it sit there, and the wine not at all. We think our method worked (but no proof, of course).

Greta

Posts #33 and #34, summarized my position well, thank you midmo. I am in the 'you're kidding yourself' if you think this is a good idea camp.

But if you want to 'home train' then at least be complete in your training. In my opinion, that training is not complete unless you:
Take your kid to one or more AA meetings.
Take your kid to the morgue.
Take your kid to visit a someone in an ICU, seriously injured in an automobile accident.
Take your kid to a funeral of someone killed by a drunk driver.

Just my opinion.

07DAD

Greta--I'd like to add another

Take your kid to county jail and let them smell caged people. See if they will let you take them near the drunk tank.

Hanna

"We have always let our kids know that we expect them to obey the law. The drinking age is 21, so no drinking until you are 21."

No, the alcohol purchasing age is 21. The drinking age in one's private home, in the presence and with the permission of one's parents, is not 21. State laws vary in their details, but every state allows parents to give their teens alcohol privately under at least some circumstances.

It's been discussed before that Jews have lower rates of alcoholism than other Caucasians. Some of this effect can be attributed to genes, but some is cultural, too -- Orthodox Jews have even lower rates of alcoholism than secular Jews from the same gene pool. Yet Orthodox Jews drink wine regularly, cannot perform their most sacred rituals without doing so, and start at a young age...usually 8 days old. Getting tipsy on certain holidays is common at school age, and required on Purim after age 13. Clearly, early exposure alone doesn't lead to high risk of alcoholism unless other factors are present, like genetic predisposition to alcoholism or a culture that endorses drinking till you puke.

Binge Drinking Among Jewish and Non-Jewish College Students

3bm103

Not every state allows parents to let their kids drink alcohol even in their own home.

ucsd_ucla_dad

There's a lot more to excessive and 'binge' drinking in college (or HS) than past 'experience' with drinking under a so-called safe and supervised environment. I don't think the average drinking student just sits down by themself and decides they'll have a binge drinking session with themself. I think they typically are in a social setting with their peers who all decide to binge drink or drink to excess and succumb to either the desire or the peer pressure to do so. There are probably very few of the binge drinkers who don't have prior experience with drinking alcohol so they know what'll happen to themselves (except for the likely rare circumstance of the first-timer going overboard). They do it anyway to fit in with the crowd they're with, to be 'cool', to be 'grown-up', to 'have a good time', to be 'wild' on purpose. Some grow out of it, some have too negative of a reaction to the alcohol and quit doing it, but many do it again and again despite knowing full well that they'll become inebriated. Of course, once they become inebriated their judgment is clouded and they may or may not make a good decision to not continue, not drive, not get in a car with another drunk, not decide to do some other stupid thing that can result in their harm (especially for females).

So the short answer - I think the idea of the parent teaching a kid to drink responsibly by introducing them to alcohol at an early age or providing it to them to let them 'practice' is wishful thinking on the part of the parent who does so. I don't see that it'd prevent the kid from binging in the future but it could get them to consider drinking as very acceptable and no big deal. I think it makes the most sense for the parent to educate realistically the kids on the effects of alcohol consumption. This should include real data points such as 'a few beers' generally being enough to get the average person feeling the alcohol effects and putting them at risk for the stupid decisions that start to follow.

EMM1

"Nah--for sex the kids only have to find the time and place. For drinking, it requires time, place and access to the technically illegal, but morally and culturally acceptible, hooch (unless the parent makes it available for responsible underage drinking-- you know, as a social lubricant)."

Ninety percent of teenagers have tried alcohol.

Alcohol and Teenagers

Approximately 50% of high schoolers have sexual intercourse

http://www.kff.org/youthhivstds/uplo...Fact-Sheet.pdf

I rest my case.