Greta

EMM1, it is not clear to me who your "no, no, never group" refers to but I assume that is directed to posters like me. I am also not sure what case you are resting. Personally, I am not naive enough to think my kids will go to college and "no, no, never" drink. But, I do agree with the sentiment so clearly stated by ucsc_ucla_dad: For various reasons, drinking is a big deal in our family. My kids know that drinking is an adult decision with adult consequences, in part, because I chose not to "train" them to drink alcohol as teenagers.

China

OK - I totally understand people's fears when alcoholism runs in the family. Guess what? It runs in my family!!! Personally I think that's even MORE reason to help your kids learn how to drink responsibly. I am not an alcoholic. I am a very, very light drinker - maybe once every couple of months. Do you think that if alcoholism runs in your family it means that one taste of alcohol is going "hook you?" I've managed to not become an alcoholic, and I hope and pray my children will as well. They totally know the score about our history. A huge part of what we did involved conversations over many, many years. The times when he drank alcohol were very few and far between when compared to the opportunities we took to discuss. (And by the way, if you've got that "addictive" gene floating around, if it's not alcohol it just might be something else that gets you!!!)

The bottom line is, however (in my opinion), it is the unusual child that goes away to college and NEVER drinks. Again, anecdotally, it usually seems to be the kids who did no drinking and partying in h.s. that are so out of control when they first go off to college. I'd rather have my child's first experience be in the safety of his home, rather than in the middle of 100 other 18 year olds - none of whom love him and want to protect him like his parents.

If the statistics mentioned before are correct (and I'm not positive they are, although it sure as heck seems to me that 90% of h.s. students have tried alcohol) there are probably some people out there who think their kids aren't drinking, when in fact they are (and I mean in the real world, not here on CC - I'm not making any assumptions about anyone's kid here).

One last thing: I think the use of the word "train" is silly. Who is training their kids to drink? Not me!!

ucsd_ucla_dad

Call it 'training', 'teaching', or 'practicing', but it's all about the same given the context - you're trying to train him to not drink to excess. Your post seems to imply that you think that 'teaching' to drink responsibly and basically 'practicing' drinking in the more supervised and non-pressured environment will somehow help prevent them from drinking to excess once they get to college versus if you had not performed that training exercise. You're not the only person I've known who's had that opinion including a number who post on CC including some of the college students even including one who subsequently died of drinking too much alcohol despite his contention that with all of the 'practice' and control he'd had it couldn't happen to him.

Maybe your method would work with some kids but would probably be detrimental to others and despite my understanding some possible logic behind your philosphy IMO it likely wouldn't prevent excessive drinking for the social aspects I mentioned in the previous post. However, since this is what you're doing with your S I hope it works to his benefit or at least doesn't hurt.

midmo

The link in post #60 is nothing but a chart. There is no explanation of how the research, if it even qualifies as such, was done.

Nonetheless, let us assume for the sake of argument that the number 90% is an accurate reflection of the percentage of teenagers who have tried alcohol. It seems that about half of the parents on CC have given their minor children alcohol at home. If those kids are then asked, in a survey, "have you ever consumed an alcoholic drink?", the answer would be yes. So much for 90%.

I don't think most of these surveys are reliable anyway, but if the analysis of surveys of this type do not explicitly account for kids who drink only in their own homes, then the assumption that the Vast Majority of American teens are drinkers is probably a bad assumption.

China, I am happy to see that you qualify some of your claims with the term 'anecdotally'. They are indeed anecdotal claims. I have never seen a research report that indicates that young college-age binge drinkers tend to be the non-drinkers of high school. Come to think of it, if only 10% of all American teens have never had a drink, how can there be enough new drinkers to account for all those binge drinkers we hear about?

MichaelNKat

It's not about training your kids to drink, it's about teaching your kids how to make responsible decisions when confronted with alcohol. What you believe is the "responsible decision" is going to vary based on your own perspectives, upbringing, culture, religion and family history. The age of your kids, the circumstances where alcohol presents itself are also relevant. How you go about teaching your kid to make responsible decisions will vary not only based on many of these factors but also on the emotional, psychological and physical development and maturity of the kid.

You can cite all the studies and statistics you want on either side of the issue. None of it is as important as knowing your own kid and understanding how to best approach the issue in the dynamics of your relationship. For the years that I took the approach I did with my daughter, I was an officer of my daughter's h.s PTO. Many parents I spoke to were aghast at my approach, citing the same type of "legal" considerations and studies as some have cited here. I know what the outcome was with my kid and what the outcome was with many of theirs. I'll trust my own judgment any day over what the "studies' and "statistics" and "legal" pundits say.

And for those who make the argument that somehow this issue is analogous to "teaching" a kid to use illegal drugs, the analogy is incredibly specious on so many levels, not the least of which is that you can consume alcohol without the purpose and design of getting intoxicated while the entire reason to use illegal recreational drugs is to get stoned. That is as about as fundamental a difference as you can get when it comes to teaching responsible behavior.

midmo

I've spent too much time on this already, but I just can't figure this question out. I've never had the slightest trouble figuring out when I've had "enough" to drink. "Drinking responsibly" means stopping when you don't function well.

It doesn't take a lot of practice to identify when your head is fuzzy, you are bumping into things when you try to walk, you have trouble pronouncing words, you are laughing at stupid things...

It isn't rocket science.

woody

well, I think nrdsb4 said it all.
In our family, there was no conscious "we must teach the kids how to drink" effort. I think it just happened organically - for lack of a better term. At around the age of 17-18, my H would offer them a glass of wine or a beer at family events. Not that alcohol is the center of entertainment - it's just that wine/beer is expected at our family event just as beautiful floral arrangements and delicious food are. Coincidentally, it was all legal in our particular state but that really was not a consideration. I don't believe they drank in HS with friends, etc. but I may be wrong. I certainly never detected anything. I know for a fact that both kids have had alcohol at college - definitely illegal for D, S goes to school in Canada so not an issue there. I don't think they are the type to get falling-down-drunk, but let's face it, I'm not there every weekend.

oldfort

Kids binge drink because they feel they need to drink enough secretly to last them the evening because they wouldn't be able to get drinks openly. Kids go off to a place where they wouldn't be caught, they down hard liquor as fast as they could before they go out. Often it's at some remote place and they could only get there by driving.

ucsd_ucla_dad

That's likely true for some but I'm sure there are plenty who are binging purposely, downing shot followed by shot or 'shotgunning' (or whatever it's called) large quantities of beer with their peers cheering them on. I think for many the binge is purposeful and part of the 'fun'. It's what the group's doing so they do it as well either to fit in with the group or simply because they enjoy getting drunk quickly.

midmo

Well, it seems one of these posters might be wrong. If someone is deliberately downing enough drinks to maintain an alcoholic high for the entire evening, then one does indeed have "the purpose and design of getting intoxicated".

Are we to believe everyone who downs red wine is doing so just because it might lower their blood pressure?

I don't put liquor in the same category as other drugs, by the way, but it is "specious on so many levels" to pretend it is not a substance that alters body and brain chemistry--that is, a drug.

oldfort

They do pre-gaming, which we never did before.

D1 tells me that when they have an event (formal, dinner, dance...), they would all chip in to buy hard liquor to drink beforehand, because they wouldn't be able to get drinks at those events. What's interesting is juniors and seniors wouldn't participate because they are over 21(they could get drinks later if they so choose), whereas almost every sophomore would chip in.

Similarly, our girls could have a glass wine at home if they so choose, but they hardly ever ask for it, or when offered they often said no.

oldfort

Most people drink because they enjoy it - may it be for the taste or how it makes them feel. I don't think anyone is making any excuse why they drink because it is not evil.

07DAD

EMM1--did you realize your alcohol "data" was from 1981?

With under 18 sex at over 50%, sex "wins" over alcohol.

Northstarmom

"uess what? It runs in my family!!! Personally I think that's even MORE reason to help your kids learn how to drink responsibly. I am not an alcoholic. I am a very, very light drinker - maybe once every couple of months. Do you think that if alcoholism runs in your family it means that one taste of alcohol is going "hook you?" "

Actually, I think that's a possibility because research indicates that people who become alcoholic are more likely to recall their first drink and to remember that it made them feel euphoric.

This research indicates that people who experience euphoria with their first drink of the day also are likely to drink to excess.

"How drinkers respond to the first drink of the day -- whether it effects them as a sedative or as a stimulant -- is a good indicator if they will be light drinkers or tend to abuse alcohol, new research suggests.

A study published in February 2002 issue of Alcoholism Clinical and Experimental Research demonstrated that those drinkers who experience "euphoria and stimulation" from their first drink are more likely to drink excessively, while those who experience a "sedative" effect will drink lightly...."
Reaction to Effects of Alcohol Can Predict Heavy Drinking

I wouldn't be surprised if the feeling of euphoria is genetically based and also is an indication that the person is predisposed to alcoholism. Consequently, I don't think that introducing a teen to alcohol at home is going to overcome that predisposition.

China

"people who become alcoholic are more likely to recall their first drink and to remember that it made them feel euphoric."

Well if that's the case, I guess I'd be off the hook if my son becomes an alcoholic. I was NOT responsible for giving him his first drink......and I think if he did feel euphoric after that first one, its memory was probably blotted out by his memory of vomiting and the overwhelming headache the first experience produced.

Research, surveys, statistics. It's all great except NOTHING can compare to what MichaelNKat said: it's all about using your own judgment for your own kid.