Help, my car just quit on me - Page 5

ucsd_ucla_dad · 10-31-2009, 01:53 PM

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Even if you were to drive more than 20,000 miles per year, as long as you purchase the car at the end of lease you may still be better off.

Every time I've run the numbers, for someone like me who keeps the vehicle a long time and doesn't make endless car payments, purchasing is less expensive than leasing. Whether it makes sense to buy or lease depends on circumstances. Here's a reference on the subject from Edmunds -

Should You Lease or Buy Your Car?

oldfort · 10-31-2009, 02:01 PM

I think it makes sense as long as it's a new car, low lease rate, and purchase the car at end of lease. You are basically delaying payment of residual value. When leasing it is important to look at the purchase price, not just the lease payment.

Dad II · 10-31-2009, 02:17 PM

T1, we are looking at Ford Fusion, Chev Mulibu, VW Jetta etc type of car. More than likely Certified pre-own.

Basic tranportation big enough for 4 just not too big that drink a lot of gas. Not new yet not just "used".

Most of dealers seems do not want to talk about price unless you are on their lot. What gives? Who want to drive all over 10 dealerships to get a best deal?

I am pretty upset that having worked so many years with a Ph.D degree. that we could not just go out and buy a decent new car. If there were not college bills, we would have had at 20K cash to buy a new Fusion.

thumper1 · 10-31-2009, 02:19 PM

It's also a matter of cashflow now versus later. In a case like Dad II's, he will have two kids in college for the next next year and the following. His payments on a lease for that time period (this year...and those two years) would be significantly less than a car payment for the same vehicle. Then when DD is out of undergrad school, cashflow hopefully will improve and DadII can purchase the leased car outright.

Right now, you can lease a brand new Nissan Sentra for $79 a month. I can't think of a car payment that would be in that range.

Of course, you'd have to plan to buy the car out at the end of the lease. Yes...overall payments might be more in the end, but cashflow while leasing might be something worth considering.

Dad II · 10-31-2009, 02:29 PM

T1, could you please send me the link of that $79 a month deal?

ucsd_ucla_dad · 10-31-2009, 02:33 PM

thumper1 - As you stated, I think leasing is almost always less epensive on a monthly cash flow as opposed to a loan of a similar amount. It's in the end that it gets you because with leasing you're essentially renting the car. A lot of people who are attracted to leases seem to end up not wanting to buy in the end - they end up turning it in for another leased car and basically end up always making car payments. That's just some people though.

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Most of dealers seems do not want to talk about price unless you are on their lot.

I haven't found this to be true at all at least around here. They all have an 'internet sales' department and most will give quotes via email. Once you get a good deal online pitting one dealer against the others and possibly with a phone call or two you go in, ask for that person in that department (bypassing the sales people) and pick up the car for the agreed price. I've done this at Ford, Toyota, Hyundai, and others.

thumper1 · 10-31-2009, 02:45 PM

Dad II...we live in CT...I don't think a lease offer from a dealer here is going to help you.

jym626 · 10-31-2009, 03:11 PM

Like UCSD, We had no problem negotiating one of our car purchases entirely on line. I was doing the communicating and used my first initial and last name so they didn't know they were dealing with a female. They faxed us their dealer invoice on the car (and it was a brand new model). We finalized the deal, and then and ONLY then, spoke to the gentleman (one of the sales managers) by phone. DH then also qualified for a military discount they were offering from corporate, so we got a brand new model (a 2007 in spring of 2006) for $400 *under* dealer invoice. It was a very sweet deal at the time. We drove in, wrote a check, and drove off with the car. DH loves his little convertible.

DS was negotiating with the dealer for a car a year ago. He was on the lot to test drive the one he wanted, armed with facts and figures from Consumer Reports, Edmunds, Edmunds Forum (a very useful discussion site as people tell what they paid for different cars/models/features in different locations) etc. The sales guy gave him the usual song and dance about what a great price he was offering. I told DS to leave, not to buy. They convinced him to take the car home overnight (clever sales ploy which gets you to like the car and have to come back to the dealer). He took the car, went home, did internet pricing with nearby dealerships and got a quote $2K less than what this first dealer was offering. He went back the next day with the car and the internet invoice, and after the old "disappear in the back for a few minutes" nonsense, they matched the price. And he'd already worked out a very fair trade-in for my 10 yr old minivan.

Dad II · 10-31-2009, 03:20 PM

This is what I hate about buying a car. Those who know how to use the system and how to negotiate get a $2K deal others will not get. Why don't they just put the bottom line on the car so anyone coudl get the same price?

In any case, we started with Edmunds and send out e-mails to all local dealers. The same car quote is very far apart. We use the lowest price from the 1st round to call around. They all will match it. However, to get the final coupel hundred off, they want you to be on lot with check so you do not take their price and call other dealer again.

How many people use the US news's ranking system to get he best price? For each zip code, they give 4 figures: true cost, true average, factory invoice and sticker price. They also give what is a "good" price and what is a "great" price. We are now below the great price.

ellemenope · 10-31-2009, 03:31 PM

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Why don't they just put the bottom line on the car so anyone coudl get the same price?

AMEN, DadII!

jym626 · 10-31-2009, 03:34 PM

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Those who know how to use the system and how to negotiate.... We are now below the great price.

Well then it sounds like you figured out the "system" just fine, DadII. The "flat fee, no haggle" pricing was tried by Saturn. Turns out people didn't like it, and Saturn is now gone (or about to be-- so you can get a GREAT deal on a Saturn and get interchangeable parts from similarly made vehicles). GM will honor warantees and provide parts http://www.manufacturing.net/News-Sa...spx?menuid=248 You should consider a Saturn-- you could get a GREAT deal and parts will be available for quite some time.

If you are comparing deals across dealerships, it sounds like you are now planning to purchase a NEW car. Even if you are getting a "below the great price" price, CAN YOU AFFORD IT????? If not, don't buy it. If so, don't be surprised if some people are bothered by the inconsistencies in the constant cries of poverty.

thumper1 · 10-31-2009, 03:43 PM

Gee...if they put a "real price" on the cars, the sales folks would have no reason to go and "talk to their manager". I agree...it's a foolish thing.

Here is what I did the last time. I went and found the car we wanted...did a LOT of negotiating the price (I play a better game of hardball than my husband)...taking newpaper ads with the same car in ads and the prices highlighted, etc. Got the price to within batting range. Then I sent my husband in. Of course, they are always more willing to deal with the men (Car salesfolks are the worst in this regard I find). DH got them down some more. Now...keep in mind...they didn't know they were dealing with a married couple. I flatly refused to give them my phone number or address. I went back with a bank check IN MY HAND for the amount DH had gotten...minus what I thought should be subtracted. It was a cash deal. They still wouldn't do it for "my" price and insisted on $200 more. I told them I would only do it if they took a personal check from me (something they normally will NOT do). They agreed. Sold.

Another time, I wanted a car for myself. I went in with the top amount I was willing to spend and was VERY upfront about it. I fully expected to pay that full amount. Well...they kept giving me quotes that were several thousand dollars MORE. I walked...told them I had given them my top number and they were wasting my time if they couldn't match it. I left. By the time I got home, there was a message on my answering machine telling me that they could sell me the car I wanted for the price I wanted to pay. I called them back and politely told them that IF I came back, they better not be wasting my time. We drove back and signed the deal for $5 less than my top dollar amount. This was a car that had just come off lease.

In both cases, we didn't NEED a car that day.

Dad II...you can't let these folks KNOW that you need a car NOW...you have to be cool, calm and collected. And be prepared to leave if the price isn't matching what you find online. And if the car you want has a leather interior and they claim it's the "only one and they have to charge you for the leather"...remind them that this is NOT a feature you WANT and you will NOT pay extra for it. They can search for another car for you with the features you want.

Good luck. I hate car shopping. Maybe that's why I drive my cars until they die. Oh...sorry...yours did!!

ellemenope · 10-31-2009, 03:49 PM

Good advice about not being desperate. You could conceivably come out ahead by renting a car until you could come up with a car at a good price.

oldfort · 10-31-2009, 03:52 PM

My H is also not as good at playing hard ball. One time we were 500 away from my price. H was kicking me under the table to get me to take it. The salesperson said, "Are you willing to walk away from this beautiful car over 500?" I said, "Are you ready to walk away from your commission over 500?" He kept on with "What about if we just split the difference." H finally spoke up, "You don't know my wife, she is not going to budge, and I need to leave."

A friend of mine bought a new Ford Explorer with AmEx because he couldn't get a car rental for a long weekend. He had a hot date. The car was delivered to his office the same day. 15 years later, guys still make fun of him.

younghoss · 10-31-2009, 04:23 PM

They could put a non negotiable price on the window...oh wait! Saturn did that for years.

Another tip for negotiating, if one has to finance a car, is the loan itself. Check your usual lender first for his terms/conditions. Then when you are close to an agreed price, throw in that you'll let the dealer arrange for financing if he'll match or beat your usual lender's terms(in exchange for a lower selling price). Dealers get a % from a lender as a referral, so that is their incentive to take a bit less at the sale, to make the sale and get the referral money.