Nrdsb4

Anyone who comes to our country and has "issues" with a patriotic celebration is just looking for a reason to be offended. I've been in France several times during their Bastille celebration. Didn't realize I had a right to feel huffy.

Pizzagirl

Agree, but what's that got to do with Halloween, which isn't a "patriotic celebration"?

Pizzagirl

*You* don't -- but it is religiously very problematic for some Jews, for example, to sing carols glorifying Jesus. And adding a bunch of dreidel songs doesn't take that way.

garland

The difference between Halloween observances and Santa type stuff, is that Santa is connected to a currently widely celebrated relgious holiday. Halloween activities are not.

Pizzagirl

I think the "demon candy" stuff referred to up thread is sillier than silly and worthy of an Onion-style parody, but I can't deny that there are thoughtful religious people for whom Halloween does have meanings that are inconsistent with their religious beliefs. And for us to say "well, it's really just candy and pumpkins, what's the big deal?" (which is it for ME, certainly - it doesn't have a whiff of religion TO ME) is like saying to the Jewish kid, "But it's only a jolly fat man who brings presents and a pretty tree, what's the big deal?"

AnudduhMom

I feel exactly the same way, Pizzagirl (#63). I think it's inappropriate at school, unless it's a parochial school, and I am Catholic (sorta).

Wow, that brings back a memory. Our kids attended international schools in different countries, some of which are traditionally Catholic. I remember at a parents' meeting in Vienna, Austria, they had us take out our calendars and mark all the holidays they would need parents to volunteer for. It was one saint's day after the next! "Let's see, we have St. Martin's Day, and Santa Lucia, and St. Stephen's, and Allerheiligen (today), and Immaculate Conception, and Saint Whoziwhatsis, etc." To the point that me and another American parent got very uncomfortable, and said "Look, are there any holidays here that aren't Catholic?"

That parent happened to be Jewish, and she and I got together and did some great stuff for the Jewish holidays with the kids. Not to mention, for Thanksgiving, she was able to score a delicious kosher turkey (in Austria!), which I think was the best turkey we ever had.

Sorry for little trip down memory lane. I'm just thinking -- in some other countries they beat you over the head with religious holidays. Many reasonable Americans would find that excessive, but I usually open my mouth and say "I'm uncomfortable with this", which makes people stare or roll their eyes, but so be it.

The problem is often that parents don't know what material will be presented at "Holiday Concerts" and parties, because schools can be a little oblivious about this.

garland

PG--but as I said above, the people saying "it's just Santa" are mostly celebrating Christmas still as a religious holiday. The folks observing Halloween are not. There may be some witches/pagans etc who do, but that is separate from the common observance of the day. And I for one am tired of having connections made that do not exist for me or for the celebrators of Halloween overall. To me, it's as patronizing for someone non-Christian/Fundamentalist/etc to say that Halloween is religious, as it would be for a Christian to say anything Christmas connected is not.

Which is why I agree that there shouldnt be any Christmas stuff in public institutions, even Santa and reindeer, but I do not accept that there is any parallel to Halloween.

FallGirl

Garland-Good post.

Yesterday my 13 y.o. reminded me that his 5th grade class was not allowed to have a party on Halloween that year because parents of 2 students objected. The other 5th grade classes had parties. I respect these parents beliefs, but that one was a little difficult to explain to S and his classmates.

swimcatsmom

When I was elementary age I attended a state school in the UK. At assembly any Catholics (which I was at the time), Jews, religions other than C of E, were allowed to leave and not participate in whatever the religious stuff was happening (no idea what it was - that is almost half a century ago ( just shocked myself realizing that). We were delighted and thought it was great to be able to get out of assembly and go play. Back in those days parents would never have thought to complain. I don't know if it would have bothered me as I got older as I eventually went to private Catholic schools where I could board when necessary (my dad was frequently posted overseas and International schools were not as prevalant in foreign countries as they are now).

I don't recall much if any celebration of any holidays or birthdays at school back then so was surprised when my kids attended schools in the US at Valentines day cards (in the UK that was not a kid thing at all back then) and cakes on birthdays etc. I never took cupcakes to school when I was a kid. And celebrating Halloween in the UK is a very recent phenomenon.

Marian

I seem to have become the spokesperson for the anti-Halloween viewpoint, which isn't a good idea because it's not my viewpoint. I just brought it up because I had experience with a family I respected who objected to exposing their children to Halloween.

Do we have anyone here who has religious objections to Halloween? It would be good to hear from those who support this viewpoint.

AnudduhMom

^ ^ I have religious objections to Harry Potter.

(just kidding)

Pizzagirl

Let me be clear - I personally love Halloween; my kids celebrated it in school (when they were younger) with costumes and a parade to a local old-age home and I'm totally cool with it. It's one of my favorite holidays.
Having said that - if it were taken out of school, big whoops -- they could still enjoy it at home / in the community. It wouldn't be hindering the celebration of Halloween if it was "only" done at home / in the community.

FallGirl

I would not have had a problem with Halloween not being celebrated in the school at all, but every class except one having a party seems wrong. (I didn't bring it up at the time because this was my 10th year in the elementary school and I was at the "checked out" point by then).

My older child attended a Christian school through first grade. They did a "fall party" with a "non-scary" costume parade, treats, pumpkins, etc. just nothing overtly "Halloween" and everyone enjoyed it. Maybe that's the way for the schools to go.

morrismm

OMGoodness. There seems to be opposition to every single holiday.

Let's think about this. Do we really want everyone to wear a uniform (some clothes might offend), show up for work and go home 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year. I guess a certain # of days can be taken off at the employees discretion regardless of the employers needs. That will help our economy, haha.

I personally think people need to chill. I am not offended when, all my childhood years and now where I work, we get the Jewish holidays off in Sept. I am a Christian. America celebrates MLK birthday. I am white. I am not offended. We've celebrated President's Day. Until now, all president's were white. We should celebrate all presidents.

Come on, you all know, if we make this country so generic, we are doomed.

aibarr

I'm still waiting for my standard Starfleet-issued silver jumpsuit, thank you very much. Only then will I know that we've truly entered The Future.