Under 3.6 and applying to top schools ( 2010-11)

[packer22]

I'm not a parent, but a kid in the same situation. I read through about half (the first 30 pages, then the last 50, looking for results), and it seems that if you want to get in, you need as many "mini/pseudo hooks" as possible. Such as:

1) Good SATs- not necessarily 2400, but the higher the better

2) Good class rank- after all, a 3.5 who is #1 is better than a 4.0 in the top 25%. A good class rank can show either a tough school, grade deflation, or if its weighted how rigorous the course load was. top 10% is the magical number, although for T20 schools, its likely you need to be closer to top 5%

3) Good extracurriculars- while its easier for math/science kids to show off with Siemens or USAMO, english or social studies kids have stuff like Boy's State and the NTCE writing awards. Basically, anything that shows how accomplished you are is good. If a 4.0/2400 kid who does nothing sometimes gets rejected, a 3.5/2400 who also does nothing almost certainly will.

4) Rigorous curriculum- although I think this is basically a given with most T20 schools.

5) URM- it doesn't lower the bar, but it gives you a better shot at it.

6) male- acceptance rates for guys are several points higher

7) Tough school- schools like TJ or Maggie Walker invariably create lower GPAs due to the increased rigor of ordinary classes, despite the higher caliber of students. However, if this is the case for you, you probably already know it.

any other mitigating factors people have noticed? Good luck to everyone.

[madbean]

great analysis Packer. I would add:

* The perfect niche fit for one of their specialty university programs -- if they have incredible profs doing neuroscience research and you've done work in a similarly brilliant and obscure area (plus appropriate targeted awards and SAT subscores), they might reward your "fit"

* Superlatives - You somehow write their very favorite essay of the year, or your GC's letter calls you the most intellectual student in ten years. Not to be confused with one's own opinion of having outstanding LORs and essays.

* Apply ED - this may give a boost at universities just below the tip-top who can get touchy about yield or crave full-pay students

[GreatKidsMom]

5boys, that is through Junior year, with a good upward trend as well.

luchteam...I think my D will have the situation you are describing..perhaps we should start a separate thread on that!

[EmmyBet]

Glad you re-started this thread ... I will follow with interest, and post if things are going on. For the time being, D has kept up a nice upward trend in grades (still about a 3.6 UW though) and got a very pretty ACT score in October (31) and has a 700 SAT2 Lit score as well. She's adding a few reaches (Vassar, Brandeis, Northwestern) that had seemed beyond her grasp before. But all will be RD, since this new score came late in the game. She'll take extra time working on her essays, and we'll see what happens.

She has lots of other choices, being a theatre major looking for a high-quality BA or BFA (which doesn't always mean a top-tier school, but usually is a less than 20% admit rate, sometimes single digits). I'm willing to spend another $100 or so for her to take a chance on these other schools; it means so much to her self-confidence that she was even a candidate, and I think she has the maturity now not to take it completely personally if she doesn't get in. She'll have to have a strong backbone for the auditions and the rest of the process anyway.

Good luck to everyone, and thanks for the advice, veterans!

[5boys]

EmmyBet... glad to have you on this thread. I have been following the 2011 thread because I have a Junior DS and I want to be prepared for what is in store for us next year. YIKES!! Sounds stressful, but an exciting ride so far. I am so happy for your daughter with scoring that 31 on the ACT. That is amazing. It goes to show that they do mature a lot Senior year. We are anxiously awaiting the scores of my DS's first SAT to be out next week. I think it could go either way with him. Test taking is usually his strength, with his GPA being the tough sell.

He had a 3.2 going into Junior year, but this year looks a lot more promising, he brought home straight A's this quarter.... and that's with harder classes... no AP's last year.
So, I have hope, that like your daughter and her new ACT scores opening doors for her, that if he continues with this trend this year and the beginning of next year, he will have A LOT more choices. But, it is up to him, and how hard he wants to work. Visiting some schools last year really put a fire under him.

I have a 9th grade DS who will be doing the whole BA/BFA decision in a few years, so I will be waiting, watching for advice on how it all works out for your daughter.

[GreatKidsMom]

Hi again, all!

5boys, I just saw your Q on S GPA--that was through jr year; S should have either 4 As or 3As and the rest Bs this semeseter (so, no major improvement on GPA but constant in school's most difficult curriculum).

[EmmyBet]

There were times I didn't think D would ever "blossom," but I'm very pleased to say that she finally has. Something clicked with schoolwork last semester, and now finally she has nailed the standardized tests. It was all up to her - consciously, in terms of putting the focus into it, and unconsciously, in terms of just getting more mature and having some skills jell. I could bemoan the fact that it could have happened one, two, three years ago - but I won't. She is who she is, and what makes me especially pleased right now is the confidence she's developed in herself.

Also I think her new ability to put everything together will serve her well wherever she goes. Six months ago I felt it was pointless for her to reach too high - even though she's always had the ability to hold her own in discussions, etc. among the "high achievers" she's been so frustrated that when the numbers come in, she would always be "lower." I thought it would be better for her to be somewhere that she could stand out, not constantly take the hits on tests and grades. And there are plenty of vibrant, quality schools filled with plenty of intelligent kids, without being in the highly-selective category, that I didn't think she was selling herself short.

If the more selective schools would take a chance on her, that's great - I think she has the toolbox she needs to go there and succeed. I have no interest in "packaging" her to increase her chances at these schools - she's definitely going to have to be accepted as herself, with the record she has, with the skill level she is at. If it's not appropriate, then she'll go to one of the other great schools on her list.

A year or so ago I was posting on CC that she just couldn't seem to pull it together, get the chip off her shoulder, make a personal choice, whatever it was that was holding her back with grades and tests. It was going to have to be her that either changed or didn't change - she can have a perfectly wonderful life however things turn out.

But now I have a senior who got all As first quarter (in 3 APs and an Honors Chem class, along with her arts electives), and says, "Whatever - it's easy to get As in those classes." She's just different, that's all. The important thing will be getting her to a college where she can continue to nurture her abilities - artistically and intellectually. There are lots of options - there always were, but now newer and different ones.

I'll save my audition worries for the theatre threads. That's a wholly different ballgame. But it will be helpful to get support and info from you all for the schools that fit this category. Thanks in advance!

[5boys]

Yes EB.... I totally agree with you in regards to letting them be as they are, and they will find the fit that is where they are meant to be based on their results. My DS decided long ago that he was never going to "package" himself for colleges. He was just going to do what he loved, the best that he could, and if a college didn't accept him authentically than he didn't want to go to that school anyway. I am proud of his maturity in regards to this. He is also one that can keep up with the top kids in discussions but he doesn't always get the grades that they do. Of course because of his true 'love of learning for it's own sake" he is adored by his teacher's. It was always a decision of balance for him. He spends a lot of time on his EC's and that is important to him too. He is not one to want to spend hours studying. So his college search will be interesting. Somewhere that is intellectual but not too competitive.

[EmmyBet]

My D went so far with the "I won't play that game" that she did reduce her options in the long run (she doesn't sound as universally beloved as your son - more of a some-love-her-some-want-to-strangle-her situation). I think she would have just lived with that, though. She has the added factor of following a very high-achieving sister, which created some of this attitude but also made shooting "lower" a little more complicated, where pride factored in a bit more strongly.

We didn't "do" anything except try to accept her as much for what she was, and gently urge her not to burn bridges, even if she didn't want to frantically build them. I could go on with more theories about how things have gone with my kid. Mostly I'm just very pleased for her right now, and anticipating a long, complex, smiles-mixed-with-tears kind of year with an ultimately happy ending.

[bburson]

re luchteam:
yes, but my son is not as strong academically: 4.1 W, 3.9 UW, ACT superscored: 30, 34 math but 27 english, ouch; SATII 720, 740, regular SAT low 19xx-- we won't submit regular SATs. We are relying on ECs-- Eagle Scout and Varsity sports, but his essays are so-so-- great topics, but mediocre writing. So, I see JHU, Stanford, UCLA and Northwestern as huge stretches, but I will probably front the $$, unless others disagree. I think he has an even chance at USC, but he has safeties that should work for him.

Adcoms know full well that some students do not test well. Realistically, this generation is seeing the end of the "test-em-up-the-wazoo" era, I hope. Soon, there will be no SAT II's, I predict; already there is chatter about the stupidity of these tests. My son got a 25 on the science reasoning ACT, then 2 months later a 34. Surely the test is not capturing aptitude. These weaknesses are becoming very well known. The pendulum has begun to swing. don't worry.

[pugmadkate]

for instance there is a difference between a 3.5 with a 2400 SAT and a 3.2 and a 1800 SAT

For most of these colleges, the 3.5 with a 2400 is still a long, long shot!

As a mother whose child was competitive for the top 20 but who is now attending the college ranked at 70 (I think?), I want to put in a plug for the schools ranked 21 and lower. There are literally hundreds of colleges out there and once you see your child thriving at their college, the whole application process becomes a very distant memory.

Gosh, I sound so old! Best of luck to all our students!

[all4game]

I am a student, but I was wondering if anybody here has any experiences with University of Rochester.
My weighted GPA is a 3.4, it should be a 3.5 after senior year grades (or even just mid-year grades - my GPA for the first marking period of this year is a 4.2).
I scored a 30 on the ACT twice, but if you combine the best scores then it's a 31.
I tried taking the subject tests in Bio and Math II but it wasn't a good choice, I really messed up and scored badly on both of them.
I've taken 3 AP classes, including psych this year.
I'm ranked in the top 37% of my class of about 480.
I am a girl from a public school in Pennsylvania usually sends a few kids to ivies/other really good schools.
University of Rochester is my top choice. I've visited and had an interview.
I really really really want to go there, but I find it hard to be optimistic about my chances.

If anyone has any experiences with Rochester, I'd love to hear them. Thanks.

[MilitaryMom]

My d is probably only applying to one top 10 or 20 college and she has over a 4.0 but her ACT is 30 with a 25 in math. She has strong extra curriculars, a strong curriculum, very good essay, at least one excellent recommendation (and no reason to think the other two aren't as strong either and one is from another alumna of the school) but even though she is a double legacy, we fully realize that it is all a crap shoot and nothing is a given. Particularly since the school has had an enormous rise in applications, none of us are expecting an acceptance.

[EmmyBet]

all4game - check on the 3.0-3.3 threads, including the Jewish B student thread. There are many comments about Rochester. It sounds like a good school for a student with your stats.

pugmadkate - You have excellent points, and believe me, I get it. My D's list is extremely mixed, and the discussion on this thread for me is just a part of what we're thinking about and looking for support with. We're not obsessed with these particular schools, but we are glad to have a place where we can talk to other people who are trying for a reach or two. My D will be happy anywhere she is accepted. But after she got a competitive ACT score, and now that I'm seeing some skills and qualities that make me believe she could make it at the right top tier school (and I believe all of the ones she has selected are right for her), I have no problem with her feeling confident about applying to a few where her chances are low.

I'm glad the thread title changed, too. This is more about kids who are reaching, not about "how do you get into an extra-super-selective school?" My D's reach schools are probably top ... maybe 40, 50, 70ish. They have acceptance rates of at least 25%, and she's at least in the middle of the mid-50% at all of them. So she'll enjoy applying (several of them have really fun, creative essays) and then see what happens.

[CountingDown]

all4game, S2 applied and was accepted to URoch last year. They got a lot more applications last year than previously, which reducted their acceptance rate to the low 30s. Work really hard on the essays and demonstrate why you want to be at Rochester. They want to feel the love.