Parents of engineering freshman....

[ellemenope]

I was thinking he should give himself a break and not be challenged in every class his first year.

Thoughts on testing out on entry level classes?

In chemistry, I would start at the entry level class. Many high school chemistry classes just aren't up to college quality. In math, if you've had two years of calculus with AB and BC, I'd definitely skip Calc 1. That's what D1 did and she said that it was a good decision.

[thumper1]

Free advice here...husband is an engineer, and DD graduated with a degree in engineering in 2010. Tutorial services. If the school offers these, and most do, your son would be well advised to sign up for a tutor for any courses that MIGHT give him a challenge. My daughter had tutors for a couple of courses and felt that these were invaluable. There is nothing to be ashamed about in asking for extra help. It can make ALL the difference in the world.

[Cardinal Fang]

A B- in precalculus is concerning for an engineering student. A kid who is going to have to make it through Differential Equations should be skating through precalc.

[katliamom]

OK: stupid question. What's the difference between computer science and computer science engineering?

[Shrinkrap]

"A B- in precalculus is concerning for an engineering student. A kid who is going to have to make it through Differential Equations should be skating through precalc."

I was afraid of that. I am also afraid he will not give up everything he would need to give up to make it work. It's possible he could do it, but he would have to let go of other things, and I can't say I'm convinced it's going to pay off. So I'm not sure if I should encourage that.

[thumper1]

A student needs a good working knowledge of calculus to deal with differential equations for sure. BUT my daughter only got a B in college calculus and she got an A in Diffy Q. She said that differential equations (and statics, and dynamics too) were application of the math skills which she found much more interesting.

BUT she also got an A in precal....in high school.

[GladGradDad]

OK: stupid question. What's the difference between computer science and computer science engineering?

There's not a clear definition because what the major is called varies at different colleges and sometimes they're both references to the same major. Generally, the CSE major is in the School of Engineering. The CS major might be as well or it might be in the School of Letters and Sciences and be lighter on the engineering courses and have more gen ed type courses. You really would need to look at the particular college and then at the course makeup, or a good description of them from the college, to determine any difference. The more general term is 'Computer Science' whether it's either one of the specific degrees I mentioned above or other variants. A lot of employers will know the difference in the particular degrees from the particular colleges if they review the courses beforehand.

Shrinkrap:
Something important for an engineering major student is to do what he/she can to balance the types of classes. Taking all heavy math/engineering/science type courses in the same semester can be somewhat dooming. Be mindful of programming courses since they can be both difficult and time consuming (think having 20-40 hour programming HW assignments per week just for the one course and these are difficult and objectively specific - not like writing a generic paper). He needs to 'engineer' his course schedule to balance it out. He also needs to seek help with anything he doesn't get since courses tend to build on one another. This seeking of help is normal and includes working with classmates, going to discussion sessions, asking questions of TAs, lab assistants, profs, going to office hours, consulting different texts and the internet (Wiki's helpful), etc.

A lot of engineering students have a reality check hit them the first semester/quarter. They either take the wake-up and continue on with the realization it won't be a walk in the park and use techniques to learn and do the material (see the 'help' above) or sometimes they change to a non-engineering major. Your S will just have to take a look at his own situation and decide what's best for him since there's no pat answer.

[jvtDad]

If it's at all possible, don't take 18 hours. 15 would be fine and let's wait and see how he does with Calc Physics. (speaking as an engineer major ages ago).

[HPuck35]

"Should be skating thru pre-calc". Math is definitely the language of engineering and should be easy for an engineer. Doing engineering without a good knowledge of math is like trying to play baseball without being able to walk or run. Ain't gonna happen. {An aside; some kids I know have learned the math for the test (SAT or AP) by cramming for it. They may be good test takers and get good scores. They then think they are thru with it. Math is an area you need for the long term. Think about it before you place out of your college math classes.}

Freshman year in engineering school may be hard but (as others have said) sophomore is tougher. Freshman year in college is an extension of a lot of what you learned in high school, but at a faster pace. Sophomore year gets you classes in statics, dynamics, materials, thermodynamics, etc that are full of new concepts. At this point, the math should be just like running in baseball, something you do without having to think much about it.

Junior and senior years actually feel as though they are easier in many ways. They aren't. They are just more fun with having to apply (in more classes and now projects) all the basic concepts you learned. (BTW, if they aren't fun, you've choosen the wrong field).

[coolweather]

ENGR 160 Algorithms & Applications (3) - This may require previous programming experience. You S should check for prerequisite on the course catalog.

I agree with others Physics and Biology should not be taken together in the same semester. They are all fast paced and time consuming.

[Minnymom]

Great thread! My freshman son is ME major. He had a tough 1st semester- 17 units plus seminar and ended up with with a 3.0. Made a wise decision to take Calc 1 even though he earned a 5 on AP test for Calc AB- problem was he took Calc in his junior year of high school and BC wasn't offered. It is a tough major- but he still loves the idea of engineering and is expressing confidence that he can handle it. He is realizing that some of his study techniques need improvement. He plans to use the tutoring center and organized study sessions regularly next semester.

It is hard to watch our bright, successful high school students not stay at the top of the heap in college, but we (and they) were told that this would be the new reality. I believe that this early experience in college teaches many powerful lessons that extend beyond course content. I sure hope my son can not only keep up but thrive in his sophomore year. It sounds like it will be really tough!

[ucbalumnus]

Originally Posted by eyemamom

However, s feels like after taking pre-cal, ap calc ab and ap calc bc - with straight A's and 5's, that he would be bored with calc 1 in college.

He is likely correct that a student who got an easy 5 in AP Calculus BC would be bored with first semester freshman calculus in college. Generally, students with 5 scores should move ahead as recommended by the university. If old final exams of the first and second semester freshman calculus courses are available, he may want to try them to test his calculus knowledge.

However, since it appears that he went to a high school that slow-paced calculus (taking BC over two years instead of one, a disservice to the top math students who are two years ahead of the normal sequence), he should be aware that college math will move at twice the pace that he saw in high school.

[bovertine]

BUT my daughter only got a B in college calculus and she got an A in Diffy Q.

That was my experience as well. At least for the first class in ODE. Of course you need to know calculus, but I found that, at least when I first learned it, solving many linear first and second order ODEs was more cookie cutter and you could actually plug into various methods.

I had a much tougher time with some of the methods of integration and with parts of MVC. Don't know how to explain it, but you really needed a "math" brain to see the tricks in some of the integration, and sort of a geometrical, conceptual brain for that those line, surface and volume integrals. I hated that, and kept getting hit with it in complex variables and E&M, in moments of inertia, that sort of thing.

Don't get me started on infinite series expansion and using it to solve problems. Bleh.

Everybody is different and hits their stride at different times. Just don't get behind, and what you learn, try to learn well.

[Shrinkrap]

This is all great!

It's like a foreign language to me, but I knew physics and biology together sounded ominous, even though they were his favorite subjects in high school. I don't know WHAT to think of his high school at this point, but that biology class in his sophomore year was a real breakthrough experience for him. It was the first time he ever enjoyed school, and I think that was his first A.

I figured his current school and advisors would know best about his schedule, especially since he is this mentoring program. He didn't seem to have much say over his schedule; it's been pretty much spelled out since he was admitted. But maybe that's to delay the reality that this might take more than four years for some kids.

[SportsMama]

As other posters have said, I would definitely recommend taking a lighter load than suggested by the university. I don't know too many engineers who graduate in 4 years.

My daughter is a 5th year senior engineering student. She started out taking the suggested course load, but it was too much, especially with the lab hours. She thought about switching to a business major ( it was her minor) because she was afraid she would lose her scholarship. We asked her what area she thought she would be happier in--and she said, "I think I could get better grades in business, but it's pretty boring. Engineering is more challenging, but what if I'm not smart enough to do engineering?"

Life is too short to spend the majority of your week doing something you don't like, so we told her to stick with engineering, even if it meant losing her scholarship. Her school requires a 3.2 GPA, and she dipped to a 3.0 her junior year, so she lost her scholarship. It has cost more money than we had anticipated, with the addition of a 5th year and the loss of the scholarship, but she is very happy and already has a job lined up when she graduates.

Engineering is intense, and it takes a lot of time to get through it. I would try to find out if your son really thinks it's what would make him happy. He sounds like he might be just as fulfilled going in another direction. Maybe not, but it's worth a discussion. Sometimes it's hard to tell what you want to do when you're 18 or 19 years old. :/