LAC Grads: Do you ever regret attending an LAC?

[NJSue]

I suspect that LACs are not as good a choice if you a) want a career as an academic -- at least relative to attending a top notch research university like JHS was describing; or b) if you want to go really deeply into any subject.

Not true. It depends entirely on what you are studying. My undergraduate degree in English literature from a top-ranked LAC got me my graduate school fellowship. The other thing to consider is that large universities, even top-ranked ones, star faculty rarely interact with undergraduates. They all have 1-1 teaching loads and deal primarily with graduate students, or they are off writing their books or doing research. Top professors at great LACs interact far more with their undergraduate students.

I definitely do not regret going to a LAC. I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat.

[momofthreeboys]

^^I think 'business" fits well with a liberal education and is becoming more prevalent in the LAC curriculum. My S1 went to an LAC that had added a busines major. He ended up graduating with a Business/English double major. My alma mater rolled it into the econ department so now you major in economics or business instead of just economics. I would not be afraid at all to send a kid with an interest in "business" to an LAC. Now if the kiddo wants to be a CPA or something like that, then a public uni setting that offers a major in accounting might make more sense, but "business" can be just about anything....

I looked at my old LAC to see if they had added computer stuff and they did but the classes are highly theory in nature and the description is The computer science program is designed to expose students to the central theoretical concerns of this rapidly evolving discipline, and to generate an understanding of the principle techniques and algorithms necessary to support meaningful applications. Again it's not a major where they are teaching kids principles taking a thinking approach not a doing approach. My son's alma mater that added business did not have accounting...only classes like micro economics, macro economics, Finance etc.

[moonchild]

I'm not so sure that I would recommend a business as a major for undergrad education, even for those knowing they want to go into business. An UG major in economics, math, psychology, anthropology, or even English or history, will give as student a well-rounded background that can transfer across many business fields. Coupled with an MBA, I'd prefer a rounded liberal arts education to a narrow degree in business, for my money.

DS went to a wonderful LAC with his interest in public policy and economics. He is currently working in our state capitol as an appointee of the Governor, two years out of college. The original opportunity that led to this appointment came from his contacts at his LAC. He may decide to get an MA, an MBA or a law degree in the future- or maybe not- he's not sure. But I think I can speak for him in that he has no regrets he didn't choose the larger university option.

[sadilly]

If you want an idea of what business might look like at a LAC, take a look at Millsaps. Else School of Management | Millsaps College

[azalia]

Different LACs and different majors have different job prospects, so it is hard to generalize. There are some LACs with strong concentrations, but provide the smaller community and a well-rounded education -- examples are Swarthmore (with engineering), Claremont McKinna (economics, business) and Harvey Mudd (engineering, science and math). You can go to a big university and still come out with less than great job prospects. My advice is to go with the enviroment where you think you will thrive.

[Waverly]

I'll be the contrarian. While I deeply value what good LACs offer, these days I wonder about their affordability. Are they luxuries many can't afford?

Let's take the kid interested in business. If he's a top student and goes to a top undergrad business school, good chance he'll never need a graduate degree. If he was headed for a good MBA that's a savings of $200K plus missed earnings for 2 years.

Right now I'm seeing the 3-2 engineering programs becoming more popular. Why? The economy. Many parents see their kids are headed towards engineering which will cost them 2 years of school post undergrad to get no better job had they just gotten a 4 year degree.

For this who will seek a PhD, medical (though you could argue fewer research opportunities here) or Law degree, LACs still work financially, but they've become a luxury for many who will require further education they probably wouldn't have had they studied their trade during undergrad.

A few years ago I didn't think that way, but the out of control costs and the student loan tragedy changed that. I'm seeing so many kids graduating from good LACs with few decent job prospects right now, with no option except to wait tables or tuck into grad school taking huge loans.

[SteveMA]

Waverly--don't discount the merit aid available at many LAC, especially for kids in the top 25% of their class. That can reduce the costs significantly. They also have more latitude to work with kids on aid packages than state schools do. My LAC was about $20,000 (4 years) less expensive than any state school and considering at the time that school COA was about $15,000, that is a big difference.

[fieldsports]

I am a LAC grad from decades ago, who then went on to law school. I stand behind the general endorsement you've gotten here of the LAC UG experience. I personally would go to a different LAC if I had it to do over. I was at a women's LAC that became a suitcase school by junior year; that was socially boring. That does not apply to most LACs.

I wrote constantly (although I never took an English course), and our writing was generously red-penciled by full professors that had come out of Ivies. We spoke in class and made presentations. We had a lot of essay exams, not the T-F and multiple guess that my friends at bigger schools were taking. Professors were accessible, and would invite us to their homes for the occasional seminar or end-of-semester social. I ran into the president of the college minutes after receiving word that my grandmother had died, and he said "I'll notify your professors. Just go." With the exception of freshman bio and chem, the sections were small enough that you could dialogue, and interrupt with a question at any time. When I changed my major after the 3d semester, they made sure I got the classes I needed to graduate on time.

My school did not seem to command the respect it deserved on the job market. This may have something to do with it being a women's school. I took an upper level course at a nearby major, selective private research university, through a consortium arrangement, and found it no harder than what I was doing at my home school.

Disappointments or things to watch out for -- they did not offer majors in every department that the catalogue would have led one to believe they did. I had hoped to double-major in Philosophy. The department really only expected to teach a few distribution courses to non-majors, and was not willing or able to offer the full sequence of courses required to major. I still remember the head of the department staring at me as we spoke on the driveway one day and saying "I don't want a major!" I also think that if you're not going straight to professional school, you have to be very mindful of internships, summer work, and the development of some practical skills set that will open doors to employment.

I think LACs, done on a high academic level, are terrific for undergrads. At the low end of the academic rigor spectrum, I am not so sure about LACs, and think the curriculum should perhaps be more oriented toward immediate employability, especially if it will cost $200,000 and the family is not wealthy. It could be instructive to dig into the details at the placement office, finding out which employers are showing up for on-campus recruiting, and how many offers that process produces.

[cbreeze]

Tell your son that two of the founders of Kohlberg Kravis Roberts graduated from ClaremontMcKenna and hire a lot of graduates from the Claremont schools. Having a LAC education certainly did not hurt them.

[JHS]

A kid I know well is currently a CS major at a great (but not top-5) LAC. She turned down one of the top university CS programs in the world to go there, as well as a full tuition scholarship at a public university engineering school, and an acceptance at a top-10 rated private research university -- any of which would have produced howls of indignation on CC if she had raised the possibility here. There is no question, none whatsoever, that her LAC has fewer CS resources than any other choice she took seriously.

She is totally happy with her choice. Loves her school, loves her CS program, and loves the opportunities she is getting. The summer after her sophomore year, she got to pick among funded research jobs in various parts of the country, and wound up working with people who were doing cutting edge research in precisely the area that interested her most (and she continues to work with them on a remote basis). This summer, she has a super-cool, high-paying, high-prestige internship lined up, for which she competed with many people who went to the universities she turned down. (I will add that she is not particularly self-confident or aggressive, and she got turned down at the most selective colleges to which she applied. This isn't a case of a super-student who would be a winner no matter where she went, or someone who could get rich selling snow to the Inuit.)

I'm still not willing to say she made the right choice. (I don't think she did.) She might well have even more, better opportunities had she gone elsewhere. But she can only take advantage of one opportunity at a time, and so getting to do EXACTLY what she dreamed of doing two years in a row makes it awfully hard to argue that there's anything wrong with the path she's on. (And the path she's on will make her recruitable by anyone in the world.)

This doesn't mean everyone should go to LACs; I don't think that at all. I think it does mean that for kids who want that sort of environment, what they give up to get it isn't anywhere near what most people here think they give up.

[turntabler]

Very useful comments in this thread.

[SteveMA]

jHS-maybe I missed something but she is doing exactly what she wants, getting paid well to do that, has opportunities in exactly what she wants to do and is being recruited by people all over the world...how exactly did she make the wrong choice?

[CrystalJ]

@mini why would you choose a different LAC?

[JHS]

Yeah -- business-wise, I have a friend who ran the McKinsey offices in Taiwan and then Hong Kong. He went to Wesleyan. My dad (who also went to Wesleyan) had a fraternity brother who started a discount airline . . . Southwest Airlines. Brian Roberts, of Comcast, and his father both went to Wharton, but their two top officers went to Colgate and Swarthmore. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a LAC degree for business, especially if you get a professional degree on top of it.

SteveMA: Obviously, I am arguing against myself. Had I been in her shoes, I would have chosen either the university with the best CS department or the university with the strongest overall portfolio of departments. I would have had the most resources available to me, the greatest depth of courses, the most people to hang out with, etc. I think that's the best way to learn, and I think if you learn the most you achieve the most. That's the advice I gave her, and the advice I would give her today. But the fact that she's as happy as can be and getting her dream jobs exposes the hollowness of my sincere, sensible advice. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[fendergirl]

cbug - I'd put what i learned in my business major (with a concentration in IS) at a LAC up against any other schools business major. It was very 'hands on'. Lots of group work, critical thinking and analysis, very writing intensive (mostly essay exams, not much of the multiple guess or t/f stuff that my friends at penn state were taking), working as a team... not just being lectured out of a book. We worked with local businesses and shadowed their executives. Biggest class i ever had was maybe about 25 and that was my freshman year. By senior year the classes were much smaller, all of the profs knew you very well to get recommendations from as well. My one prof got me a job my senior year. I also knew everyone in all of my classes by the time I graduated and we formed many study groups along the way. It's definitely a different environment but should in no way be discounted against a public university where the prof may or may not know your name, that is if he or she even does the 'teaching' in the class.

It all depends what the student thinks is better individually.