Outlaw the BA?

[romanigypsyeyes]

1. Get rid of unpaid internships, which hurt the middle class/working class, which can't afford to work for free.

I'm working class. I took an unpaid internship. I also worked while doing the unpaid internship. As a working class student, you need to balance the two and that means not taking on the 40 hour internship but maybe the 15 hour internship while working 15 hours.

I don't think you should get rid of unpaid internships because the experience is invaluable. A lot of places, like the one where I interned, can't afford to hire someone. Therefore, if you want the experience, you work for free. I'd take free experience over no experience any day.

[coureur]

>>Do you know if they did in 1965?<<

Of course they did. Except for a couple of years in the very early going when the school was so small that no one graduated that year, Harvard has awarded the BA every year since 1642.

In modern times the vast majority of bachelors degrees awarded by Harvard are BAs, even in the sciences. The only Harvard major in which the BS is awarded instead is Engineering.

[etondad]

To be pedantic, Harvard awards the A.B. and the Sc.B..

[MSFHQsite]

1) Unpaid internships are essential and key to many people getting jobs. Furthermore, the government has no right telling me what I can work for. Minimum wages are just as criminal.

2) You should't do away with BA's. Everyone has a right to study what they want. I do think if you are going to get a degree with less demand you should focus on the cost of the school. Don't get 100K in debt for a degree that will start you out at 30K at best.

3) a BA from Harvard is a lot different than from some other school. He isn't being a hypocrite, he is simply trying to remove a high priced and often unnecessary block from hiring people and allowing lower class individuals to elevate their economic standing.

[Tizil7]

I would say that having practical experience with a task is more important than a degree itself. In saying this, however, I am faced with another dilemma, of how perosn may get their first job.

Sometimes I wonder ... if investing $50k+/year for four years will have equally rewarding outputs, four years after college. I understand that it is what one makes out of the education and not the fact of paying in itself.

HS Senior here. Waiting for acceptances.

[MiamiDAP]

"can most certainly be fired for things other than non-performance and just how many teachers do you know that make 6 figures? "
-Why when the rest of working force is getting fired for non-performance, teachers are such exception? Is not it in a contract that you have to perfoem your job satisfactorily to have a job or you are out? Or they bargained to remove even this essential point of any employment contract? Wow, I did not know that they went that far, then I am more correct than I knew before. There are many teachers who are having 6 digits income even in our very economically depressed region. People mention it all the time about some neighbors or somebody else, most people are pretty disgusted with the fact that in addition to very high income, teachers also do not pay a dime for their health benefits, retire at the "ancient" age of 55 with ton of pension money and health benefits continue and many of them continue working at some other jobs (I know personally several that do). These money are coming from taxpayers' pockets, not private employers and not from mysterious "Obama stash" as some believe, and taxpayers' pockets are not deep at all, we are driving on the holes in our roads, somehow these holes are not fixed, I wonder why.

[SteveMA]

MiamiDAP--hearsay does not make it true. Please do some research. Also, EVERYONE is paid out of taxpayer money.....

Teachers in our district pay more a month for their health insurance than we do....
Teachers SOMETIMES can retire at age 55 but USUALLY that is not the case. I know in many districts they offered early retirement to teachers to cut expenses. That was a district decision, not a teacher driven decision

"Huge Pensions" that they paid for. You understand that teachers contribute, and in many cases have no choice but to contribute, to their pensions just like you do to your 401K. In our state they are required to put 8% of their salary into their pension fund, how much are you REQUIRED to contribute to your 401K?

Pensions do not work like you think they do. Funded pensions are an annuity. The money goes into a big pot, grows at a fixed rate and the actuaries figure out how much your monthly check will be based on their data. You can create your own "pension" by opening your own annuity and contributing money to that every month.

In order to have continuing health coverage in retirement, which yes is a great benefit, teachers have to forgo some of their monthly pension to PAY FOR that insurance....

How many teachers have been cut from your district in the last 10 years.....tell me they aren't getting fired.


I also find it odd that a person posting on a college search board that is in MED SCHOOL is begrudging teacher's their salary and benefits.

[NJSue]

There are many teachers who are having 6 digits income even in our very economically depressed region. People mention it all the time about some neighbors or somebody else, most people are pretty disgusted with the fact that in addition to very high income, teachers also do not pay a dime for their health benefits, retire at the "ancient" age of 55 with ton of pension money and health benefits continue and many of them continue working at some other jobs (I know personally several that do).

Then you need to take this up with your local governments and school boards. You elect the people who set public employees' salaries.These instances are by no means widespread or universal. I also question the reality of "many" teachers making 6 figures. Administrators might, but not teachers. Your local area must be way out of whack with national averages.

[MizzBee]

MiamiDAP, seems ike somebody drank the Kool-Aid about those evil public union employee

Everything SteveMA said is true. the teacher pensions are not like US Steel or the old autoworker pensions where the company pays it all. Teachers have to contribute to their retirement, and retiring at 55 is done so the district doesn't have to pay the next teacher as much, and the overall healthcare premiums for the district get lower because young people use healthcare less. So why shouldn't a person at 55 still work? It also doesn't mean that they begin to take their pensions. In an annuity, if I start taking at 55 I won't get as much per month. If I wait to take at 60 or 65, I will get more.

And the holes in your road are not fixed because your city, county and state have not made it a priority. Go to a planning meeting and raise a ruckus, get your neighbors involved and sign petitions.

[jeremygrentham]

"We don’t need legislation to fix this problem, just an energetic public interest law firm that challenges the constitutionality of the degree as a job requirement."

This is indeed provocative. What he’s really arguing is that we need a class action lawsuit to devalue a currency. He argues that people who have this currency, through the purchase of a BA, are buying themselves a ticket to an upper class existence and that this is driving class divisions. Presumably, the lower/working class would initiate this lawsuit in order to level the playing field.

[frazzled1]

There are many teachers who are having 6 digits income even in our very economically depressed region. People mention it all the time about some neighbors or somebody else, most people are pretty disgusted with the fact that in addition to very high income, teachers also do not pay a dime for their health benefits, retire at the "ancient" age of 55 with ton of pension money and health benefits continue and many of them continue working at some other jobs (I know personally several that do).

You know, Miami, you'd be performing a kindness if you were to post the name of this utopian school district for the benefit of the many CC parents who have kids graduating as teachers this year. If you were to make the above statement in our rather affluent community, every assertion would be absolutely wrong. Teachers here pay plenty for their health insurance, and most are not in a financial position to retire at the age of 55. As for their salaries - the median salary for a high school teacher here is less than $65,000; only teachers at the 90th percentile or higher earn more than $80,000. Our is a high-performing hs, yet even the principal earns less than $100K per year.

What is it that people "mention all the time" - the supposedly high salaries, or the fact that they're disgusted by them? If the former - sorry, but I won't believe it until I see some documentation.

And many teachers "continue working at other jobs" because they need the money.

[wizkid94]

How does his having a bachelor's degree make his arguments hypocritical? Just because he, in theory only, could be benefitting from his B.A., that doesn't mean he can't argue against the current model.

[MiamiDAP]

NJSue,
"Then you need to take this up with your local governments and school boards. "
-It has been done UNSUCCESSFULLY. We, taxpayers are nobodies, just a target for huge unions. They are laughing at us and nobody can do anything, except to move out as many do. But I have a job and very thankful for that, so I am staying where I am and prepared to open my pocket wider and wider and wider as more and more will be demanded from me by very lound voices.

[glido]

" . . .You should't do away with BA's. Everyone has a right to study what they want. "

Agree with you on that and I am confident the Courts would agree. I think what Murray was suggesting is that the Courts might prohibit employers from requiring a B.A. for employment. I don't see that happening, but it has provoked a lot of dicussion re what is the role of the college degree in 2012 U.S.A.

[bchan1]

Murray's work is controversial because it is often misconstrued for political/social purposes never intended by the author.

The Bell Curve talked about the increased stratification of society, a growing lack of cohesion and the resulting social ills that this divide creates within society. Murray's work seems to be continuing in this vein looking at educational institutions and how credentials are valued vs. education in the workplace; the practicality of implementing this sort of sweeping change is no doubt beyond the capabilities of already stressed employers but Murray is a scientist, not a businessman.

I believe his work is valid but often misunderstood and aptly demonstrates how a little knowledge might be a dangerous thing; particularly when politicians selectively interpret his work to their own political purpose.