Outlaw the BA?

[glido]

" . . . we should prick the B.A. bubble. The bachelor’s degree has become a driver of class divisions at the same moment in history when it has become educationally meaningless. We don’t need legislation to fix this problem, just an energetic public interest law firm that challenges the constitutionality of the degree as a job requirement. "

Charles Murray in today's NYT.

He opines that the federal courts would rule that it is illegal for employers to demand that a job applicant have a BA because there is no way the the modern BA could correlate to any job.

Link added: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/08/op...per-class.html

[SteveMA]

Sounds like he is trying to make a name for himself and has political aspirations.

[frazzled1]

I'm not a fan, but he's certainly already made a name for himself: AEI - Scholars - Charles Murray He co-wrote The Bell Curve, an influential book about the role of IQ in US society, and also frequently contributes essays to important periodicals.

[MizzBee]

He may opine away, but this Supreme Court would never vote to restrict the freedom of a business it would seem, espcially in hiring. As for the BA, I would like to think that a BA means that a candidate should be able to write clearly, have some critical thinking skills and have a breadth of knowledge on a few topics other than poplular culture. I am aware that in practice that is not always the case.

[glido]

The Supreme Court has already restricted business from using standardized tests for hiring unless they can show a direct correlation with the tasks of the job.

Murray is definitely trying to be provocative, but does he have a point that a BA is not really related to a lot of jobs that require them for hiring. Interesting that he does not make the same argument against the BS.

[smorgasbord]

Mr. Murray himself has a B.A. from Harvard...

[IJustDrive]

I'd bet ANYTHING that his children have B.A.s and that his grandchildren either do or will as well.

The anti-college argument is almost always about someone else's kids.

[Mutti2012]

Charles Murray is an opinion of one. While his writings are interesting--and controversial and thought-provoking--I for one would not draw any conclusions solely from him on any subject.

[NJres]

Why stop at the BA? Why not outlaw the MBA? And, the MD.

[romanigypsyeyes]

Mr. Murray himself has a B.A. from Harvard...

That made me LOL.

People are such hypocrites.

[saintfan]

A certain presisdential candidate with 3 degrees has been referencing this gentleman's work in a positive way.

[SteveMA]

What are the chances that Mr. Murphy's child dropped out of college and can't find a job?? Is that perhaps the motivation for this?

[Skyhook]

Disclosure: I have not read Mr. Murray's book, "Coming Apart," just reviews and discussions of it.

I thought the point of his book was to point out all the problems besetting the working class, and how the working class is becoming more remote from the professional class. Ok.

Eliminating the requirement for a bachelor's degree, for most jobs, seems like a weak solution, one that would create more havoc than help. Yes, there might be that "diamond in the rough" non-BA applicant who could do the job, but how much additional work would HR people go through to find that person amidst all the others? And do working class people WANT these jobs?

No, the way to help the working class is JOBS. JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, JOBS. Generate some decent jobs that don't require a college degree, like we used to have in America. Let's build some roads, some hi-speed rail, fix our bridges and crappy buildings. Train people to assist elders and people with disabilities.

[SteveMA]

Basically eliminating the BA would transfer the "training" to the employer, increasing THEIR costs significantly. I am the first thing to give in a situation like that would be salary. They would start paying $10/hour for entry level jobs...

As for creating "working class" jobs. The problem with that still comes down to training. It used to be that a mechanic would turn on your car, listen to the engine, maybe drive it around the block a few times and guess what was wrong with your car. Now everything is computerized. Does your high school have the funds to fully train a mechanic these days?

Also, building high speed rails is all well and good, but how are you going to PAY for these projects and fund the upkeep?

[spurster]

"Outlaw the BA" is a misread of Murray's article; he uses "B.A." simply as a synonym for "bachelor's degree". Rather, he is advocating that job descriptions should not require a bachelor's degree. Instead, the descriptions should state the skills that are required. His argument is that bachelor's degrees have become more an indicator of "upper-class privilege" rather than being truly educated. I can see the point that one might have the skills for a job without having a bachelor's degree.