1 in 2 new graduates jobless or underemployed

[kleibo]

To further that thought zoosermom - I live at the Jersey shore and there are literally thousands of people that commute to Northern NJ and Manhattan from Monmouth and Ocean County, NJ. It's very common and much more affordable. It;'s does make for a very long day, but that's the trade off.

[scout59]

Biology is the most popular STEM major, but has poor job and career prospects

And just to tag-team onto ucbalumnus: Chemistry, especially synthetic/organic chemistry, also has poor job prospects right now, due primiraly to the implosion of pharmaceutical jobs. Underemployed? I can show you underemployed! Just ask me about all my 40-and 50-year-old chemist friends still looking for jobs, years after the last round of lay-offs.

[zoosermom]

It's very common and much more affordable. It;'s does make for a very long day, but that's the trade off.

I'm a commuter and wouldn't want to live in Manhattan. There are options. I have known many young lawyers making $160k starting salaries who had multiple roommates for several years to get financially secure. I know very few new workers who don't either work a second job or do something else. It is tough, for sure, but also doable.

[blossom]

Malcolm, I studied Classics so I have no idea who to whom you are directing your tirade. But it sure isn't me. I did get a job once when my resume was plucked out a big pile by a department head who had also studied Classics and said that his goal was to build a team who could orate in Latin during meetings. (alas, I had studied Greek but I got the job anyway.)

[blossom]

Someone who works for me commutes from Pennsylvania. (Bucks County- not all the way to Philadelphia). I'd rather have a gang of roommates and live closer in but that just means I value time more than privacy- Honey's values may be different.

But Honey, our point is that blaming our cohort for your job woes is a waste of time. Find a job; you'll make the finances work. But if you continue to search for a job in your desired geography with the salary that you consider acceptable, you may let another year go by. And then you're not only competing against the class of 2011 and 2013, but all those "newbies" from the class of 2014. So get on with it, you'll make the finances work.

I never house sat (I don't like animals and most of my friends who did those gigs had to deal with pets.) But a close friend had a sweet 6 month gig living in a fantastic waterfront house in CT taking care of the pets while the owners spent the winter in Florida. Free rent, walking distance to the Greenwich train station with a quick Metro-north trip to midtown! Nice deal.

[momof2kids]

Honied - I am sympathetic to your situation. However, I would caution you about making assumptions. You would certainly think I am privileged if you met me now. What you would not know is that I took a truly crappy first job despite a fancy degree and relevant work experience. I worked ridiculous hours creating spreadsheets because that is the only skill of actual value I brought to the firm at age 21. I lived with 5 girls in a two bedroom apt. and did not own a car until I was almost 30. I had a mountain of student debt. I am so grateful for that job which was completely unappealing to most (post 1987 crash; arguably a worse job market than the last few years). Slowly, and with a combination of hard work and good fortune, I have moved up through intellectually and financially rewarding positions. Good luck; I hope your efforts lead where you want to go.

[SteveMA]

honied_dreams-you perfectly illustrated my point--kids are too focused on money and finding jobs in NY, Chicago or LA. What is your field. I will bet money that posters here could find, in a quick search, jobs in their area in your field where you can make a livable wage.

See, back when we graduated ( I made $15,500 in my first job out of college, btw), we had roommates. We couldn't afford the $650/month rent on the apartment, so 4 of us lived together and shared expenses. We drove used cars and didn't go out to "clubs" every weekend. You do what you have to do.

[kleibo]

Another big thing I think for many of us is that - 1. we could not go home after college (really were not welcome) and 2. did not want to go home after college. I landed in that little of both area. My parents really did not want me coming back home so I moved in with my sister and paid $350 a month. I travelled from central, NJ to Harrison, NJ (next to Newark). That meant getting up very early to take a train to Newark and then hopping on the PATH train one stop and then walking to work. Just terrible - but I did it and was happy to be out on my own.

I don't know - have WE spoiled our kids. Have we spoiled our kids that they cannot go out on their own?? Or don't want to as well.

[TheGFG]

Conversation with friend yesterday:

F: How's your D?
Me: Great! But trying to find an internship for the summer. No luck yet.
F: Tell me about it! These days, you have to have connections. Our S applied to hundreds of places (he's an engineer by the way) but only got an internship because our neighbor down the street helped him get in at his company. Of his college friends, the only ones who got summer jobs knew someone.

I am so sick of the advice to network. You have to actually KNOW people to network, and know them well enough that they will want to help you. I am a middle class SAHM whose husband works from home. We simply don't have a lot of high-level connections. Most of the people I run into are other moms, teachers, and fellow middle-classers who are not the ones with hiring power (or any power at all) at their place of employment. It's not like I or D are regularly hanging out at the country club or golf course such that we meet CEO's and hiring managers.

D is using alumni connections as best she can, but simply working at a company doesn't mean you have any pull.

[scout59]

honied_dreams, I know you're just upset and blowing off steam here. But honestly, do you really believe everything you posted?

Most of the people taking jobs now, quite frankly, are very privileged. They are people whose parents can afford to provide them a lot of monetary support, so that they did not have to take on student loans, so that they could take unpaid internships, so that they can now live somewhere that has many more opportunities.

I don't think my D and her freinds are "privileged." Most have loans to repay, although D doesn't. Most had paying internships in their field, most are living in large cities, and all had pretty high GPAs. The wrinkle in their story is probably their major and the opportunities that exist for accountants. In D's case, the accounting major plus a high GPA led to multiple internship offers.

Our generation is being walked all over, forced to take entry level jobs for no pay under the guise of "work experience." We are being thrown under the bus by baby boomers.

If you're really under the bus, then look around - there are plenty of out-of-work or underemployed baby boomers there with you! in fact, if you wave, I'll probably see you.

Signed, under-employed baby boomer

[SteveMA]

kleibo--I think that is part of it. We do a lot more for our kids than our parents ever did and we've made their lives a little too easy . I also think that we have encouraged our kids to "be the best", whatever that means for each child and then the go into the job world and they want me to do "what"? "But, I'm the best"!!!. I remember a few years back a new co-worker, pretty fresh out of college, second job (fired from her first) was complaining one day because she wanted to furnish the basement of her new house but couldn't afford to do that. Us "old" folks suggested rummage sales. You would have thought we wanted to cut off her arm because she "only" shops at Pottery Barn for furniture. Um,ok. We had patio furniture in our living room for about a year after we got married until we could afford to "furnish" the place .

My parent's rule after we were done with college was that we had 6 months to find a job or we started paying rent. If we were not making enough effort, the door was that way.

[BCEagle91]

> I really resent the people who say college grads are not finding
> jobs simply because they are "lazy," that they "don't make enough
> sacrifices," or that their "expectations are too high." I graduated
> with honors in 2011 from a top school. I have looked for jobs within
> and beyond (FAR beyond) my field, but they're simply not there--or
> they do not pay enough.

What's the major?

> My boyfriend, a 2009 grad, has held two professional jobs since he
> graduated--one in NYC that simply did not pay a living wage for the
> city, and one in Chicago that paid decently but that his company did
> not or could not make full-time (and hence did not pay enough or
> give him health insurance). We find ourselves in a Catch 22--we
> can't live in the city (where the jobs are) because it is too
> expensive and we have no parental support, but we cannot move to the
> country because we cannot afford a car to commute to the jobs in the
> area; we need more education, but cannot afford to take on the loans
> to attain it.

My son's friend that connected my son with his job, lives in a poor,
urban area and takes commuter rail into Boston. I think that he has to
get on the train between 6:00 and 7:00 and it's a 45 minute ride into
Boston and then he has to take two subway rides to get to Cambridge
where he works. So he has a commute one-way of at least an hour but
his housing is really cheap. The commuter rail is something like $8
one-way but his workplace is considering covering his commuting
costs. He would like to live in the city but he hasn't worked that out
yet. Spending 2+ hours a day commuting can really crimp your ability
to have fun but it may be something that you do for a year or three
to get started to the point where you have more job flexibility and
more income.

Another guy that I used to know lived in the Boston area. He typically
shared places with four or five other guys where they split the rent.
Not great for privacy and you have to deal with the idiosyncacies of
several others but it is a way to live in the city. Flatmates are
typically found on Craigslist.

> Most of the people taking jobs now, quite frankly, are very
> privileged. They are people whose parents can afford to provide them a
> lot of monetary support, so that they did not have to take on student
> loans, so that they could take unpaid internships, so that they can
> now live somewhere that has many more opportunities.

I think that this is true in many cases. It is certainly true for our
kids - they didn't have any loans and we're ready to provide any
logistical support that they might need. But they still had to do the
work of studying, getting internships, maintaining good grades and
applying for work.

My son's friend didn't come from a privileged setting though. I
believe that he signed up for ROTC and earned the title of NCO (not
sure how that works) and he received a lot of benefits in return for
serving the Marines including an active secret clearance.

> Our generation is being walked all over, forced to take entry level
> jobs for no pay under the guise of "work experience." We are being
> thrown under the bus by baby boomers. Our social security will be
> eaten away by 2036 or so. I am sick of the ignorance flying around
> these days, especially on forums like this filled with, let's face
> it, a lot of privileged people.

A lot of boomers went through the same thing in the late-70s and
early-80s. There were a lot of Boston College graduates working at
Star Market bagging groceries back then. A lot of BC students were
from middle-class Boston-area families and didn't have the level
of wealth that you see in students there today.

Every generation
Blames the one before
And all of their frustrations
Come beating on your door

-- The Living Years, Mike and the Mechanics

> Here is a very enlightening article everyone who cares about this
> should read: Young People in the Recession - The War Against Youth -
> Esquire

From your article:

"Nobody ever talks about generational conflict. Who wants to bring up
that the old are eating the young at the dinner table? How are you
going to mention that to your boss? If you're a politician, how are
you going to tell your donors? Even the Occupy Wall Street crowd,
while rejecting the modes and rhetoric and institutional support of
Boomer progressives, shied away from articulating the fundamental
distinction that fills their spaces with crowds: young against old."

Do you think that the average older person wakes up every day trying
to figure out how to take more from the young person? The typical
person tries to improve their own circumstances with the tools that
they have available. Not every older person is prosperous or well-off.
The older person may have kids and grandkids too and probably wants to
see them all doing well too. The overall group behaviour may make it
feel like everyone is out to get you and older Americans can feel this
way too.

> I'm so sick of you people who constantly belittle those with
> humanities/liberal arts degrees and preach that all students should
> become STEM majors because that will lead to rivers of gold and
> happiness. That is so freaking pretentious. What if somebody doesn't
> have the aptitude, or even worse, doesn't have the interest to go
> into the STEM fields? Should they go into it anyway just to get a
> job?

I think that the odds are better in certain areas but many can't or
don't want to be a nurse, accountant, engineer, or scientist. With
STEM, you really need to love it to be happy as it requires a strong
effort in school.

I don't have a problem with liberal arts and humanities majors; as
long as the student and parents understand that there may be more
difficulty in finding work. In the past, these majors were sought
after in the job market and I imagine that many still are. But these
positions may have been more available to parents with connections or
students going to elite skills with excellent career networks.

> I'm a STEM major about to graduate and let me tell you, I had a very
> hard time getting involved in major-related clubs and finding
> internships because I had very little interest in the field. I
> majored in STEM because of parental expectations and it was the
> "practical" thing to do. That's what will happen to all these
> liberal arts students. If you pressure them into STEM, they may get
> the degree but do nothing else because they have no interest in
> it. Not only that, but they will suffer throughout their college
> careers. Is that what you all want? Are you so focused on money and
> career prestige that you want your children to sacrifice their
> happiness?

I don't think that parents want their kids to be unhappy but parents
may believe that the views of their kids aren't realistic or optimal
and may push their position over that of their kids' because they feel
that they have more experience and knowledge of the working world.

My feelings are that the less marketable majors are luxuries - if the
parents and/or students can afford them or if they are willing to
accept the job potential, then sure, why not? I have a friend with a
Phd in Fine Arts and he's doing quite well but his parents could
afford to put him through three degrees.

> You all disgust me. Stop pretending your children are actors you can
> use to play out your perverted fantasies.

This is an interesting thread (along with a few other related threads
running now) as it's bring out some of the frustration with the
economy and job market. It is tough out there and it's interesting
to see how parents and some students are feeling over it.

[blossom]

GFG- networking doesn't just mean running into the CEO of Merck at the country club. It means talking to your professors about your job search; talking to the TA's and other grad students you may know in your department; doubling back on each and every interview that a kid may have had, sending a nice thank you email and saying, "I'm sorry things didn't work out for the internship this summer, but if you hear of anything for which I may be qualified I'd love to hear back from you", and making sure that you ask HR or the people in recruiting who facilitated the interviews for feedback.

You don't need connections to network. My parents were teachers- believe me, they were worse than useless when it came to finding a corporate job; they thought corporations were evil and only Republicans worked for them. (it was the 1970's, what do you want!)

The attitude that "oh well, everyone who gets jobs has connections" is not only factually incorrect, it really diminishes the point of networking.

Your dentist has a patient who can hire people. Your church/synagogue/mosque has a member who can hire people. Your friends who are in middle management don't need to have "pull" or be the person who can hire in order to be helpful- it's enough for them to be able to look in the company directory and actually send your D the real email address of the person in recruiting who hires, instead of the anonymous "Recruiting@corporation.com" which is the big mail drop. The company directory is online- it will take them 30 seconds to identify 5 people in the recruiting department and forward their emails to your D.

Your D will be able to find a fine job when she graduates even without an internship- but learning how to look for a job is a skill that many college graduates don't have, so even the frustrating parts of the process are valuable.

Finally- your D is young enough that a job is probably more valuable to her than an internship right now. Folding towels at Bed Bath or making change at the local movie theater is just as valuable as anything she could be doing in an office, and is a great way to demonstrate her work ethic.

[Emaheevul07]

The overall tone of this thread is really antagonistic to the recent grad demographic, whether you mean it to be or not, and some of them are retaliating as a result. I think a lot of us on either side of the fence are making generalizations we don't quite believe in, or even intend.

I am having a hard time accepting that the solution to all my problems is to suck it up and stop whining when people much older and evidently less spoiled than I are having the exact same problems. This conversation has gone from silly to absolutely absurd. While some students certainly have entitlement issues, that's something you grow out of really quick once you graduate and the reality check sets in--you get over it or you starve, not a difficult choice-- and MANY of us do not have these problems and these ageist generalizations about our generation are insulting to those of us who are working our fingers to the bone and going without necessities to pay the bills.

If it makes you feel any better, I don't think most of us would imply that we think the baby boomers have fangs if we didn't feel ganged up on. A lot of silliness all around.

[jrcsmom]

I graduated in 1992 with my "useful" BS in psychology. I'd taken additional lab courses and stats to get the BS instead of a BA. I had no desire to go to grad school in psych. I also had A LOT of education courses (I was 2 classes short of a double major) and was hoping to get a position in a training department.

I started looking for work EARLY. Began sending resumes out the winter before I graduated. When I got no response I expanded my search to any entry level position I felt remotely qualified for. I sent out well over 100 resumes, went to several job fairs, and wound up, getting, I believe, 3 interviews. I graduated with 0 job offers.

I started grad school because it was a more appealing choice than moving back home with the parents, but put the degree on hold when my son was born. At that point with a baby to support, I had to start working, so began working as a secretarial/receptionist temp. My pay varied, but some days I made as little as $6/hour, barely over the then minimum wage. I had worked as an assistant in the computer labs on campus while I was a student, and eventually I got a temp job working on an IT telephone support helpdesk for $7/hour. That turned into a permanent position. Fast forward 20 years and I still work in IT and now make a decent salary for the area where I live.

My BF at the time got his BA in English. The only job offer he got was as a management trainee for a retail store. He left that position after he quickly discovered that he was expected to work 60-80 hour weeks for what amounted to less than minimum wage by the time you divided his salary by the number of hours they expected him to be there. He also wound up working as a secretarial temp and for awhile worked a second job doing inventory in a warehouse. He found a permanent job as an "office assistant" at the local office of a major software company. He used that opportunity to take advantage of any company training he could. He spent countless hours doing online courses. He eventually got the opportunity to move from being the secretary into a position doing post sales support for customers. Fast forward 20 years he still works with that company's software and now makes a good salary.

The economy may be a little tougher now, but I'm not sure it was ever 'easy'. As someone else noted you do what you have to and you get by.

I guess the 'sad' thing to me is that no one has taught that to the current generation.

My son will be headed off to college in the fall and even now still in HS, I've talked to him about co-ops, internships (paid or unpaid) and choosing electives that will compliment his degree and make him more desirable. And yet if he graduates and can't find a job in his field, then before he moves home to my couch, he better be looking for jobs as a secretary because neither of his parents were too good for that.