Is 2.65ish GPA in 4 yrs better or 2.9ish in 5 years better?

[Olymom]

Sweetie, you are focusing on the wrong thing here. A 2.65 indicates that academia has been a problem. You might double check the college rules on any F's or D's because some colleges will allow a student to retake a failed course and substitute the next grade for the F. That can do a lot to help a GPA.

But I would be taking the message that academia was not a great fit. Are you, perhaps, terrified that you won't be getting a job with your so-so GPA humanities degree? Do you really, really want a graduate degree? Those are two very different questions.

Visualize two different scenarios:
a) You own up to the stumbles you've had. You decide the world is your oyster and that you are ready to work and earn your way. No more term papers! No more mumbling professors! Your own apartment! Your own paycheck! You fire up all your talents to land a decent paying job that appeals to you and you never look back.
b) You try to stuff that sad GPA under the carpet. You study like mad for grad school testing. You beg and grovel for a grad school slot. You get there and feel like a fraud because you know the same things that tripped up your grades before still exist in your life. You borrow money for the grad degree. You suffer for 2 to 4 years. You earn your Master's and . . . still have to job hunt.

I know -- there are other scenarios out there. But I think #2 is a typical one for people who are graduating and haven't a clue on how to job hunt.

You are going to have to learn how to job hunt. If you are from a top tier college, you are blessed. You get to sweep the GPA under the rug and put a glorious bumper sticker on your car and you get to carry a sweet key chain or pendant or tie to your job interviews. George W. Bush didn't graduate at the top of his class. Neither did John McCain (McCain was close to the "goat" or total last place in his class). Both grabbed a degree and galloped on to many other things than academics.

Your GPA is telling you something. Don't let the fear of job hunting be the reason you go to grad school.

[cobrat]

George W. Bush didn't graduate at the top of his class. Neither did John McCain (McCain was close to the "goat" or total last place in his class). Both grabbed a degree and galloped on to many other things than academics.

Unless the OP comes from a wealthy political family which could support/subsidize him long into middle age or a well-connected Naval family* which could facilitate McCain's first few rungs in his career(i.e. Getting a highly competitive pilot training slot despite graduating 5 from the bottom of his class)....neither of those men would be good examples for most undergrads with mediocre-subpar GPAs.

Moreover, judging by what I've read about McCain, his issue wasn't so much academics overall as the type of academics he had to study at the Naval Academy....engineering/sciences which weren't his academic strengths.** During his high school days, it seems his academic interests was more on the humanities/social sciences side. He even toured Princeton as he briefly considered studying humanities/social sciences there....but family tradition...and probably family pressure meant he ended up going to Annapolis and its engineering/science centered academic curriculum.

* Grandfather & Father were both prominent admirals.

** According to what I've read and heard from older Naval officers...Annapolis in the '50s was much more of a narrowly focused hardcore engineering/tech school than what it has become in the last 30 years...a more comprehensive college offering majors in humanities/social sciences. The last is something some older graduates grumble about as a detraction from Annapolis' mission to train future Naval officers well-versed in the science/engineering aspects of their profession.

[Olymom]

I'll bet there are better examples than the ones I chose. The point being that sometimes one just gracefully accepts the diploma and moves briskly on to another phase of life.

We indoctrinate our children for two decades. What comes after third grade? Fourth grade! The next step is abundantly clear. And suddenly they finish a college degree and the "what next" is a deep unknown black hole. Grad school can seem like a way to avoid being sucked into a well of despair (particularly in these tough economic times). However, the economy is slowly improving and grad school can be for those who are keen to be academics -- Suze Orman writes eloquently about how going into debt for a grad degree is a bad, bad, bad idea for most people. Too often they end up searching for entry level jobs with a huge millstone of debt around their necks -- or they seem too old and too educated for an entry level spot.

[cobrat]

^ ^

One point I was making was given that mediocre GPA....even finding an entry-level job may be a long struggle.

Moreover, name of school may not be as much of a boost if there are too many other classmates/recent grads from the same school/range of schools who have better GPAs and/or work experience who are also unemployed/underemployed. Especially given the recent recessionary economic climate...it's still an employer's market for the most part.

OP's going to need to prepare for a long struggle in the job hunt and to explain that GPA if job interviewers ask about it.

[Olymom]

Unless the job requires skills that are different than coursework. For example, many public relations and event organizing jobs require strong people skills, good organizational/calendar skills and a dash of polish or style. A miserable grade in chemistry is irrelevant.

So many times just one F and one D is enough to crash a GPA -- and the rest of the transcript may be quite reasonable. One has to lead with the strengths. For instance, I know one recent grad who only counted the grades in his major and correctly stated on his resume something like "3.5 in my major course of study" -- which is what interests an employer anyway. A full transcript is furnished upon request -- a flattering but honest portrayal is possible.

[cobrat]

Originally Posted by olymom

Unless the job requires skills that are different than coursework. For example, many public relations and event organizing jobs require strong people skills, good organizational/calendar skills and a dash of polish or style. A miserable grade in chemistry is irrelevant.

So many times just one F and one D is enough to crash a GPA -- and the rest of the transcript may be quite reasonable.

First, attaining the OP's GPA would likely have meant more than one F, one D, and/or a spate of Cs.

Second, according to what I've heard from many HR colleagues/employers and from that same cousin who is in a position to compare notes with fellow managers at networking events, GPAs are routinely used as a proxy by HR/hiring managers to gauge an entry-level candidate's level of work-ethic and ability to do things well and on-time. They'd have some serious concerns about those issues with someone with a > 3.0 cumulative GPA.

Only exceptions to this are if they have substantial impressive work experience/internships and/or they meet a more understanding hiring manager like that older cousin. However, even he has admitted that it seems he's the odd duck among the hiring managers in his field/geographic area.

[bovertine]

Only exceptions to this are if they have substantial impressive work experience/internships and/or they meet a more understanding hiring manager like that older cousin. However, even he has admitted that it seems he's the odd duck among the hiring managers in his field/geographic area.

You certainly have mastered the feat of generalizing your anecdotal experience, which basically amounts to second hand info from your cousin, to the entire job market. All employers are different. I assure you. Sure some emplyers set minimums, many even put it in their "help wanted" requirements. But not all.

I wouldn't be surprised if the median GPA for most engineering programs is below 3.0. Unless somebody can show me real data that over 50% of engineering graduates are unemployed or working at Target it defies logic that you need a 3.0 to get hired. Not to mention that I happen to know for a fact it isn't true. But nobody knows where I work, or my cousin, or my uncle for that matter. So data combined with logic is a ncie idea, though sort of scarce on internet message boards.

Edit-
Now grad school, that's a different matter. I think it's tough to find a decent grad school that will admit people with under 3.0.

[blossom]

I'm with Olymom (and I hire for a company that asks all employees for GPA's, even if it was 20 years ago. If they don't remember, fine- but we always ask.)

Don't apply to investment banks (they ask). Don't apply for engineering jobs (they often ask, but you're not qualified anyway.) That leaves about 750 different occupations for the OP to explore.

Do not go to grad school. Do not fret about your GPA (nothing you can do about it anyway.) Get yourself a plan for getting launched and move forward.

I had an employer who always liked low GPA's for salespeople. (not door to door encyclopedias... this was high end, long lead time, big ticket sales.) He said that in his experience, they always felt like they had something to prove given their modest academic achievements, and therefore worked harder and smarter than the A students.

Just get moving. Once you're employed and working hard and being successful nobody is going to care about your GPA. Avoid the few fields that care (banking, consulting, etc.) and you'll be fine.

[Olymom]

It is true that some things loom large in the moment. Potty training seems like Mount Everest when you're the only mother at the park with a 2 and 1/2 year old that doesn't care a thing about "big boy bottoms." The right college choice seems pivotal to many 18 year olds -- even though there are hundreds of excellent choices. And I suppose there may be a day for me when the right gravestone engraving is a big deal.

Meanwhile, we seem to have lost our OP. Here's hoping he/she is on a path that is alluring and likely to be successful.

[ConsideringGrad]

"Don't apply to investment banks (they ask). Don't apply for engineering jobs (they often ask, but you're not qualified anyway.) That leaves about 750 different occupations for the OP to explore."

What are some of those occupations?

[Olymom]

Come on! Time to get the face out of Campus World! Hie off to the nearest bookseller and browse the magazine rack. Pick up the yellow pages and flip through them. Search Craigslist job listings. Contact your campus placement office.

You are, what, 22 years old and you haven't yet thought about what you would do at age 23? No ideas whatsoever? For heaven's sake, please don't teach school. Public education is too often the refuge of the unimaginative instead of those called to teach.

Sales rep, administrative assistant, account executive (means you keep some clients happy) are typical starter jobs. Pick up a Forbes to see where they say the hot money is going. Visit your state employment website (one friend is a geography major and she got a job at the state's mapping department).

Start opening your eyes to everyone and everything around you.

[lookingforward]

I'm with Olymom, in the principle she suggests: if you can't master college courses, what will make the next program think you can rise to that level of challenges? Grad school is not a lateral move.

BUT, you don't get into grad school he way you get into college- now, it's not about maybe this or maybe that field or interst. OP said humanities. You are expected to be on your game, know what you want to study, have some idea of the research topics that interest you. You are supposed to attract the attention of the profs you may work with. To focus in this thread on gpa is to miss the point of a higher education in humanities. And, you should have been speaking with your profs, in depth, by now.

PS. if you are really at a top tier school, go over to the school's career services dept. If you're at a second or third tier...go over to career services.

And, the truth is, many, many employers simply don't ask about gpa. And if they do, assuming your major gpa was better than your overall, you can always state that as an opener. But, you have to be a go-getter. We cannot overempasize that.

[blossom]

If you like to write- Corporate Communications, Media Relations, speechwriter. If you like to write and are interested in finance- Investor Relations. If you like to read- Research Analyst at a Think Tank. If you're well organized and creative- Event planning. Marketing assistant at a museum or historical society. Development at a non-profit (what they used to call fundraiser.) If you're good at math and interested in health care- teaching hospitals have an entire department of people who coordinate clinical trials and recruit patients. If you're good at math and not interested in health care- market research-- ad agency, consumer products company. Government- local, state, federal- every single campaign going on right now has people coordinating communications, analyzing polling data, planning logistics.

Surely you know a grown up or two in the work force? Surely you know someone in their '20's who got a job out of college without going to grad school? Get off your duff!

[Pizzagirl]

You certainly have mastered the feat of generalizing your anecdotal experience, which basically amounts to second hand info from your cousin, to the entire job market.

Thank you! This puts into words exactly why I tire of the anecdotes about the innumerable cousins and why their experiences are so important!

[cobrat]

Originally Posted by blossom

If you like to read- Research Analyst at a Think Tank.

Every think tank research position I've seen advertised required not only a minimum GPA of well above a 3.0...but also an MA at the very minimum.

Only exceptions I know of are partisan political marketing organizations that most clued-in folks IME wouldn't dignify by equating them with think tanks.