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Old 06-08-2012, 10:23 PM   #31
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I don't think most such speeches can withstand scrutiny or analysis. That he hit a chord with his audience and they liked it made is a successful speech. THat it is getting this attention make it "special".

I don't agree with it. The whole definition of "special" to me is exactly what privileged children are. Just by the virtue of their birth, they are treated very well. So, yes, these kids are special and hopefully they can do special things in accordance with the special treatment they have gotten.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:48 PM   #32
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Busdriver, I agree with you. This guy comes off as an arrogant guy who thinks he is special. Thinks his pension that exceeds what the private sector gives is due to his being special.

I would never say anything in public like this referring to my clients. But I dont have the job security that "public servants" do.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:41 PM   #33
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Count me with crankyoldman, busdriver, and kayf. I wouldn't normally comment without having read the entire speech, but I keep getting the "509 Bandwidth Limit Exceeded" error message.

On the one hand, I would imagine that there are some students who engage in what look like altruistic efforts chiefly with an eye to the resume. On the other hand, I would also imagine that they do learn something in the course of their work, and they might provide some marginal benefit to the people they are intending to serve.

Beyond that, I think it is easy to imagine that, in families that are relatively well off, the children have inflated senses of self-worth and entitlement. I have on occasion observed or read that about a very small number of the children of a few of the super-rich.

However, I think that in families that are upper middle-class, the prevailing sense is really quite different. Many of the students are probably worried, in fact, about how they will "make it." And I would guess that the last time they bought into the reassurances that they are all "special" was when they were about 7 years old.

There appears to have been some good advice in the speech, which I hope I can access at some point.

However, I really think that graduation is a time for celebration and encouragement. Reflection is good, but in a graduation speech, it ought to be reflection that inspires, rather than reflection that depresses. Perhaps when I read the whole speech, it will seem better to me.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:56 PM   #34
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This guy needs to come to my school.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:02 AM   #35
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I'm cynical, I agree!
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:20 AM   #36
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I am personally insulted by his insults toward "Americans." American's do so much more for this world than any other country in this world. No other country does as much giving, charitable work, ANYTHING, than the US. Honestly, I would rather see us do LESS for everyone else and a little more for ourselves. The self-esteem in this country about our country as a whole is in the gutter, despite the fact that we are an amazing group of people. Look where we were a few hundred years ago. Then look where the rest of the world was. Who has come the furthest? Who will be there offering aid at the next Tsunami? or other disaster that hurts and kills across the world? It will be us. But who runs to our aid when we have a problem? No one. We are on our own. Fine. But I would like to see us stop thinking poorly of ourselves and stop doing so much to "win over" the love of others or "compensate" for what we see as our terribleness (is that even a word?). Seriously, if a PERSON ran their life how the USA runs things..giving of themselves so much, doing so little for herself/himself, feeling like they can never do enough for others, then not doing enough to maintain himself/herself...what would we all say? That person would clearly need therapy and help to overcome this problem. But in the US..it is a way of life.

SO...basically, I am saying, I have a hard time with anyone who makes comments about American kids or Americans in general being spoiled, or coddled, or otherwise.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:26 AM   #37
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"Beyond that, I think it is easy to imagine that, in families that are relatively well off, the children have inflated senses of self-worth and entitlement. I have on occasion observed or read that about a very small number of the children of a few of the super-rich."

You're right, it is easy to imagine that, but it is not necessarily reality. The kids of the super rich do not always turn out like Paris Hilton or the Kardashians. There are a healthy number of mega-millionaire or billionaire families at my kids school. As far as I can see, the majority of them are kind, caring, low key, and extremely nice. You wouldn't know their financial status if they didn't have a famous last name, or if you hadn't been to their house. A number of the super wealthy kids we have known over the years have suffered through illness, divorce, death and failure. If they have inflated senses of self-worth and entitlement, they sure hide it well.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:29 AM   #38
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It did annoy me when a full TWO THIRDS of my son's 7th grade class was on the honor roll. Some honor!
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:34 AM   #39
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Yes, I agree, busdriver11. By saying it was easy to imagine, I meant to imply that people may guess that children from wealthy families have an inflated sense of self worth, but their guesses are probably not based in reality.

In any event, from my experience base (not including many of the really rich), I don't think that the "inflated sense of self-worth" idea applies much at all to the upper middle class--which is probably the sort of area where McCullough teaches.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:43 AM   #40
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I can only speak for myself. Growing up in a large single income family full of the typical challenges, we definitely did not feel special. I am sure I have spoiled my daughter by giving her all the encouragement and opportunities I did not have. As a result she is far more accomplished then I was at her age. I always make sure to remind her to keep her feet on the ground. Is this a bad thing?
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:53 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmkh70
I am personally insulted by his insults toward "Americans." American's do so much more for this world than any other country in this world. No other country does as much giving, charitable work, ANYTHING, than the US.
Are you talking about foreign aid? Because while we put out more foreign aid than any other country, when you make it per capita or as a percentage of GDP/budget, the US is not in the lead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmkh70
Honestly, I would rather see us do LESS for everyone else and a little more for ourselves.
Good message, I think you're right, this should have gone in the speech. "Less for others, more for you." The wealthy don't get that enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmkh70
Look where we were a few hundred years ago. Then look where the rest of the world was. Who has come the furthest?
True. In colonial times, we had the best health and standard of living on Earth, and now we're obese and many other countries have better standards of living, even after many wars ravaged their lands.

Though we are richer than the Third World. Oh, we're richer. And others are poorer! The US and its corporations are good at exploiting cheap labor in underdeveloped countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmkh70
Who will be there offering aid at the next Tsunami? or other disaster that hurts and kills across the world? It will be us.
The UN, the Red Cross, and a collection of governments, including the United States. Japan's disaster inspired aid from those who could obviously help, like the US and Europe, and even those who had to sacrifice more to give what they could, like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bolivia, and the Maldives (which remembered the devastation of the 2004 tsunami).

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmkh70
But who runs to our aid when we have a problem? No one. We are on our own. Fine.
This is just idiotic. When we're in trouble, other countries (even poor countries and those we have called enemies) help us. When Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, the following countries officially offered/sent governmental aid in the form of money, personnel (doctors, disaster relief, etc), and supplies (food, blankets, medication, oil): Afghanistan, Albania, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, The Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brunei, Cambodia, Canada, People's Republic of China, Republic of China (Taiwan), Colombia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Finland, France, Gabon, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Republic of Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kenya, Kuwait, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Malta, Mexico, Mongolia, Nepal, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Romania, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Vietnam, Yemen.

(In addition, Cuba immediately offered 1,586 doctors, 26 tons of medicine, and millions of dollars, and Venezuela offered one million barrels of oil, $7 million, and two mobile hospital units, but the US government rejected both offers for political reasons.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmkh70
Seriously, if a PERSON ran their life how the USA runs things..giving of themselves so much, doing so little for herself/himself, feeling like they can never do enough for others, then not doing enough to maintain himself/herself...what would we all say? That person would clearly need therapy and help to overcome this problem. But in the US..it is a way of life.
Yeah, because constantly acting to enrich yourself and assert personal dominance over all others, while sometimes giving to charity would make people think you should care more about yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lmkh70
SO...basically, I am saying, I have a hard time with anyone who makes comments about American kids or Americans in general being spoiled, or coddled, or otherwise.
SO... basically, I am saying, you need to be educated.
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:19 AM   #42
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Roger_Dooley I must say sir you are the first person on collegeconfidential to make me laugh my *** off.
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:55 AM   #43
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"SO... basically, I am saying, you need to be educated."

Jeez, I guess the kids can be happy they didn't hear lecture on post #41 instead. Apparently if you think this is a great and wonderful country that ought to spend more time taking care of it's own citizens, you need to be educated how completely selfish, destructive and evil we truly are? Dang, don't think I've seen so much anti-American hatred for a long time. There's being realistic about things and having your eyes wide open, and then there's just self loathing. That makes me sad.
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Old 06-09-2012, 02:10 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busdriver11
Apparently if you think this is a great and wonderful country that ought to spend more time taking care of it's own citizens, you need to be educated how completely selfish, destructive and evil we truly are?
Actually, educated on the topics covered at large by my post. Namely that, per capita, we do not give the most foreign aid, and that claiming that other countries don't help us when we're in trouble is an affront to the generosity of countries all over the world. I did not say that we were selfish, but that we were not too selfless, and that we could give more (we can). I did not say that the US is evil, and I recognized the foreign aid contributions it makes, simply refuting false claims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by busdriver11
Dang, don't think I've seen so much anti-American hatred for a long time.
It's anti-American to say that we're not the best country ever, that we don't dominate the field of foreign aid, that others help us, and that there's still much more we could give? Though, given the things that are and have been "American," being anti-American isn't always bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by busdriver11
There's being realistic about things and having your eyes wide open, and then there's just self loathing. That makes me sad.
Again, I don't see what's "loathing" about what I wrote. Unless one is of a "love it or leave it" mind and buys into the blind tribalism that says that the country you're born in is the best country ever in everything, a recognition of the importance of helping others and the positive actions of the rest of the world is a good thing.

The post I was responding to surmised that US foreign aid meant that rich kids in the US are never spoiled or coddled. In addition to a full logical failure in that argument, much of what it claimed was false. I set about to correct that. If it made you sad, that's unfortunate.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:16 AM   #45
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People, people, people.... Lighten up!

It was a light hearted speech aimed at one particular group of people, who, by all accounts found it appropriate and as funny as it was intended to be.

Personally, in my little neck of upper middle class but not part of the one percent, the speech was a hilarious commentary of the life I see around me. Kids around here ARE swaddled, tutored, bubble wrapped, urged.... All out of love. We can afford to laugh at ourselves. That speech would have been gotten a standing ovation at our high school.


Of course this speech would be inappropriate given at an urban magnet school. Or at a school mired in poverty, or at a school where actually graduating from high school IS something to celebrate. But the speech wasn't given there.

I doubt Mr. McCoullough (sp?) was thinking about our standing within the international community or our efforts in international aid when he wrote the speech.
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