For the child who made little effort in highschool?

[reeinaz]

OP - Does he want to go to college or does he feel like it's simply the next step, like high school after middle school? Not suggesting that he doesn't have the chops for college but maybe he just doesn't have the desire. Maybe start with that discussion and see where it goes.

[Youdon'tsay]

Just wanted to say that you make cc seem punitive. It's a viable option and sounds like maybe the best one for your ds, at this point. He's not in the running for merit aid anyway, it sounds like, so nothing to lose by going the cc route for a year or two.

[Eightisgreat]

He insists he wants to go. He wants a degree in computer science and was earning A's in computer science in high school. We don't have the AP test results yet for this year.

[reeinaz]

There is this saying "Even Cs get degrees". With his sores and GPA, there are many schools available to him. See if he's motivated enough to find them and apply. Maybe suggest that where ever he goes he will have to take out student loans so he has some skin in the game. Subtract that from what you'd be paying yourself. If he achieves a certain semester GPA (3.5 for example), you'll agree to pay off his loans for that semester. If his cumulative drops below a certain GPA (2.5 for example), you won't fund his college at all.

[Emaheevul07]

I was kind of like this in high school. I was smart enough to have at least a B+/A- average but I consistently made B- to C grades because I was bored silly and figured I'd just do the bare minimum to meet *my* standard and not expend the effort on the tedium-- if I can get Cs and frequently even Bs without trying, why try consistently if I can get away without it? I had the brain to go straight to college, but probably not the skills-- time management, coping with pressure, all those things you have to deal with when you are actually giving-a-crap about your classes, I'd never done them before.

I went to community college and continued to be woefully bored there, but I DID grow up in that time and do the work anyway so I could transfer to a "REAL" college. It was probably what I needed to do, even though I was ready to bury my parents alive at the time for making me slog through cc for two years. I needed that time to grow up and start caring about what I was doing. I suspect had I gone straight to the University of C+ Students that's as good as I ever would have been, but I ended up going to umich. I vastly exceeded anybody's expectations and I thank god for that every day. Staying the lazy loser I was in HS for the rest of my life wouldn't have been pleasant.

[ohiobassmom]

There is nothing wrong with starting out at cc, especially in this situation. He is not going to be eligible for merit aid at 4 year schools with his grades and sat scores.

Absolutely not true. Incoming freshmen can get lots of merit aid. My S graduated HS with a 2.95 - not even a 3.0 - and got tons of merit at several colleges. Ivies? No. But very respectable LACs. A 2.5 is a little more challenging but there are schools that would take him and even gladly. I think a lot of those opportunities go away once you become a transfer student, but YMMV.

I agree with those who said send him with the expectation of a certain GPA, whatever that is. If he doesn't reach it, you don't pay.

In my S' case, he keeps all his scholarships and financial aid (which, for this school, he earned with audition, his grades and scores and interview, etc and which total a LOT more than I personally am paying) as long as he stays above 2.0. I'd like to see higher grades from him but frankly, this is his gig, his scholarship and his loans. If he does well enough to keep them I certainly won't yank my contribution.

(His scores were also higher than his GPA would suggest - his ACT alone got him into the honors program at his college. To stay in THAT he'll need to keep a 3.5. We'll soon find out if honors program perks motivate him enough to earn that consistently).

[sacchi]

If he wants to go to a 4-yr college rather than a CC, I would let him. He will feel more ownership in his school situation if he is allowed more control over his path. (If you forced him to go to CC and he did poorly there, he could blame it on you rather than owning it himself.) But I would structure things so that he has some skin in the game for costs and clear expectations on his academic performance in order to be allowed to continue (with your financial support).

For example, you could make him take out loans to cover some of the school costs. And then you would repay the loan after he completes a semester with grades that meet some pre-determined level (but don't be TOO aggressive here, college will be a shock to his system, and CS is a difficult field, so perhaps requiring a 2.5 GPA or better and no individual grades below a C-, for example). This is just an example, you will have to figure out what makes sense to you. But I suggest that you give him support to try to be successful at a college of his choosing, but make sure that there are consequences to him if he fails out.

[MizzBee]

I apologize if this comes off as mean or at least grumpy, but why pay for anything when he hasn't shown that he will put in the work? I think that time put in at an affordable option is a great idea. He has already shown that he will say what you want to hear (lying about studying for the SAT), and he has a high opinion of his abilities but nothing to back it up. Let's say you send him off and he does poorly. You will be out money, he may even have loans and that GPA will travel with him when he finally gets his life together. I think that community college can be a great place to prove responsibility to the person that will pay for school. Maybe he needs to see what it is like for smart kids that don't apply themselves. They often still end up asking if we want fries with that order. He has skated by and if you send him off without an attitude adjustment, he is likely to fall back on his old tricks and do enough to get by. In CS he will be competing against a lot of kids that learned how to study and manage their time. It isn't as if we are in a booming job market and companies will hire any programmer with a pulse. Wouldn't it be better if you didn't have to pay a fortune while he finally grows up?

[Youdon'tsay]

Re: post no. 21

OP implied that the schools he was interested in we're on the selective side because his 600s on his previous SAT, fine scores, weren't good enough. That's why I said his 2.5 wouldn't put him in the running for merit aid -- not at the kinds of schools he seems to belooking at.

[3togo]

OP, I'm going to be the contrarian to most of the posters. If your son goes to a lesser school or a CC (in many states where they are not very challenging) you will not be risking a lot of money but you might be risking putting your son in a situation where he can "succeed" while continuing to skate by on minimum effort. There is something to be said for him getting thrown into the toughest school to which he is accepted ... a school where he would have to change his ways or sink. This is certainly a risky approach and I would expect a tough start as he learns his old ways won't work. This could be expensive lessons but might be a worthy investment. Given an agreement that you'll pay for 4 years of school then this might be a risk to consider.

And yes I was sort of that kid when I entered college ... my grades were not that weak but I never did HW in HS and blew off a lot of assignments in classes I did not like. I went to a tough school and my first 2 years I got at least one C+, C, C-. D+, D and D- (managed to miss the F though). Eventually I found a major a loved and got a 3.7 my last two years including something like a 4.0 the last 3 semesters in my major itself. I can't relive my life bit I'm convinced that going to a challenging school while not mature enough was absolutely what woke me up and forced me to grow up

[Whatdidyou]

Since you seem willing and able to completely pay for his education as long as he does well (which is more generous than many), this is my advice:

- Let him pick where he wants to go but encourage CC so that he can bring his grades up high enough to go to a good program.
- If he picks a 4-year, do what you suggested, check his first (or first couple) term grades to see if they are at an acceptable level, and if not, take away your support but still offer it for CC.
- Hopefully he'll start to take college seriously. There are many students who do average in HS because they don't care but then step it up to become A students in college (which is much better the doing good in HS and then partying and doing poorly in college). Your son very well may be one of these.

This attitude isn't necessarily bad as HS grades don't matter much (especially if you go the CC to state school route). Although, if you're paying, you have the right to be concerned that he won't ever take school seriously and should therefore take the above advice.



"There is nothing wrong with starting out at cc, especially in this situation. He is not going to be eligible for merit aid at 4 year schools with his grades and sat scores."

This. CC seems like a great option to bring up grades and explore without as large financial consequences. The quality of introductory courses taught at CC vs 4-year's is comparable, with community colleges sometimes being of an even higher quality due to small class sizes and increased resources. IMV: All the smartest middle-class students should go to CC (MANY do; especially with the recent soaring tuition costs).

CC also seems like it would be the best alternative because their are often less distractions (football games, dorms, drinking..etc) to surround your son.

ohiobassmom: For a 2.5 student, CC is almost always the cheapest alternative. & I personally rec'd a good amount of merit aid upon transfer, so the disparity probably is not as big as you imagine.

[mathinokc]

Be aware that not all CCs are a great place to start for computer science. Our local community college is great in most areas, but the computer stuff is all vocational and none will transfer to a university. And, you certainly don't want to spend 2 years at CC with no computer science and then try to cram all the required courses into 4 semesters.

Of course, starting at a CC isn't a 2 year commitment. You can go for 1 year and then transfer. Even if he stays 2 years he doesn't HAVE to pick up an associates degree -- he can do what's best for him to finish his bachelor's.

[pamom59]

@Eightisgreat- I can hear your disappointment and frustration with your son. It sounds as though he has a lot of untapped potential but lacks motivation. Try as we might, we can't "make" our children do anything, they have to want it for themselves. Perhaps the 600s were a wake-up call for him, and by October he will have studied and do better on the SATs.

Be aware that there are plenty of kids who have worked hard in high school and would be happy to get scores in the 600s on the SATs. There are colleges for every kind of kid, including the motivated hard workers who don't test well, and those that are smart but lazy and do well on tests. I think right now you and he need to focus on the type of college where he will be best motivated and will have the best chance of success. I would also have a talk with your son and let him know that you support him and will help him find the right college for him whatever his SATs turn out to be. It seems like he has disappointed himself and you, but I can also hear that you love him and want what is best for him and he needs to know that.

You might want to get a private college counselor who can help your son to identify colleges that are a good match for his current scores, as well as some that he might "reach" for if his scores improve. Having a third party involved can help defuse some of the stress between parent and child.

I personally would resist the urge to try to "control" this type of child through threats or rewards as he seems to be the type of personality who does what he thinks is best and does not care about rewards such as grades etc. But you know your son better than I do.

I'm sure it will all work out but through your frustration I urge you to make sure that your son knows that you still love and support him despite the SAT scores not being what you both expected.

[ohiobassmom]

youdon'tsay I understand. I was actually responding to vlines statement that he wouldn't be eligible for merit at 4 year schools.

I was pleasantly surprised by the large merit awards given to my S by good, let's say top 50ish USNWR LACs, given his GPA. Of course every kid brings something different to the table, mine had a good # of APs and a lot of musical talent and gives a great interview, but had I been told his grades/scores (not as good as the OP's S) meant no merit, I might not have encouraged him to aim high.

I just wanted OP to now that merit is very likely NOT out of the question, depending, of course, on the school. And also that the conventional wisdom around here - I have no firsthand experience with this - is that transfers don't often get packages that are as good.

The 3.0 parents threads were very helpful to me last year, OP may want to take a look at some of the schools discussed there for her S.

[3togo]

OP, one other thought ... a theme posters often mention is they would only pay full pay for a focused mature hardworking student.

I have one of those ... and she would do fine wherever she was planted ... she had the maturity and assertiveness to make it work in any environment ... while we are paying full price for her school we consider it a luxury purchase.

I also have one who underperformed in high school ... and I believe finding the right situation for him in college was trickier, more important, and has more leverage than for her sister ... a poor choice and he could continue to under perform and an good choice might be what kicks him into gear. Mom3ToGo and I were more willing to pay more to get this child into the right environment than for her sister because we believe it has more leverage to his long term success.

So the question I have for you is ... what is the situation that you believe is most likely to draw out your son's potential? And are you willing to pay full fare for that option even given the risk it might not work?