Talking about Finances with Parents

[aigiqinf]

I'm really at a loss on how to talk to my parents about financial aid and support. The situation's a bit complicated:

My parents have had my brother and I convinced for the longest time that we make very little money. Our parents would begrudge us small necessities, like buying needed clothes (we're not talking fancy or name-brand clothes). We got very little money for Christmas, birthdays, or other holidays. And we were okay with that, because we assumed that's all our parents had.

In fact, my parents have a pretty decent amount of income and access to significant funds from relatives. They're both disabled now, but they're bringing in quite a lot. Due to some tax stuff I don't understand, a lot of this money is not taxable and not counted by the FASFA. Thus, the federal government gives us a lot, but my private school is looking at the overall picture and reasonably asking for about $3,000 a semester. My brother's public school doesn't meet demonstrated need, so he's left with a gap of a few thousand a year.

My parents haven't saved any money for our college expenses--their parents completely paid for their school from undergraduate to doctorate. As a result, my parents just kind of assume that someone else ought to be taking care of our expenses... like the university itself, or the tooth fairy.

Frankly, my brother and I feel that we've been financially under-supported our whole lives. We both need some assistance from our parents to cover basic living expenses (travel to and from school, basic living supplies, etc.) as well as a little more from our parents to cover direct charges from the university. We think it's unfair for us to have to take significant amounts of loans to cover our Expected Family Contribution that my parents can easily cover. I worked and saved in high school and now in college, but it just doesn't make a dent in these expenses.

My parents respond by saying how much they'd like to help us, but that they just have so many health expenses and don't what what the future holds. Yet, they just went out and spent >$60,000 on two new cars, when my mother can't even drive. And they eat effectively all of their meals out at fancy restaurants. This makes my brother and I very angry because they don't want to spend nearly any money to help us through school.

What's the best way to approach them about this?

[Erin's Dad]

my private school is looking at the overall picture and reasonably asking for about $3,000 a semester. My brother's public school doesn't meet demonstrated need, so he's left with a gap of a few thousand a year.

You don't. It sounds like it would do no good.

Both you and your brother are authorized to take out a Stafford loan in your own name. It sounds like that will be enough for your brother. You might also have to get a summer job to make ends meet, or get a job at the school, but it's certainly workable.

[ucbalumnus]

Originally Posted by Erin's Dad

You don't. It sounds like it would do no good.

Agree, at this stage when you have already enrolled. The time to talk about finances is before making the application list -- if you had known that your parents would be unwilling to cover the EFC assumed by financial aid, you could have targeted big merit scholarships or full rides in your applications, or otherwise looked for the lowest possible net cost.

Of course, if your parents overpromised (back when you were applying) and underdelivered (after you enrolled), that is shame on them, but if they did that, then it is unlikely that you will convince them to contribute more now.

[SteveMA]

Where is it written in the parenting handbook that parents are required to pay for college for kids? I would also be curious, in a rhetorical sort of way, to see exactly what the numbers are for income, etc. What may seem like a lot to an 18 year old kid, doesn't work out to be a lot when you have high medical bills, etc.

Do your parents leave you home alone to eat ramen noodles when they go out to eat every meal or what happens there??

[ucbalumnus]

Originally Posted by SteveMA

Where is it written in the parenting handbook that parents are required to pay for college for kids?

It is assumed by the financial aid system until the student is 24 years old, married, or a military veteran.

Regardless of whether one agrees whether that is right, or what parents should or should not offer, it is best for this talk to happen before the application list is made, so that the student and parents have an informed expectation with respect to each other and the college financial aid system. It looks like this was not the case for the OP, resulting in financial problems and family conflict after the fact.

[SteveMA]

ucbalumnus-no, it is assumed by the financial aid system that the STUDENT will pay for college-unfortunately, they have to use their parent's information for that. Sorry, many, many, many kids pay their own way through school. I think if the OP needs extra funds for living expenses, etc. that a job would be a good place to start.

[Hunt]

Every time this kind of question comes up, somebody will defend the parents, even if they are taking their money and burning it up in a giant bonfire. But really, it doesn't matter much--there's nothing you can say to your parents that will make any difference. Either (a) they really don't have the money to help you; (b) they truly believe that they don't have the money to help you, even if they do; or (c) they know they have the money to help you, but just don't want to. Even if the true answer is (b), you won't convince them. You will simply have to get the money elsewhere--from a job, or loans, or perhaps from other relatives.

[mom2collegekids]

At first I thought, "this kid thinks a modest income is a large income, and he doesn't understand medical expenses".

But, if the parents just spent over $60k on two new cars and frequently eat at pricey restaurants, I'd want to slap them upside the head....especially if one of the parents doesn't even drive.

Yes, it's "their" money (well, what hasn't been given to them from various gov't aid), but to behave like this is a bit appalling.

[kleibo]

And sometimes it doesn't even matter if you're married. The school will still ask for the parents information. I'm sure it's very common with Professional school.

This is for Tufts Professional School.

"Most financial aid programs are considered “needs-based” where the student must demonstrate financial need. Financial need is determined by using the data requested on the financial aid application materials the student is required to submit in order to apply for financial aid. The student’s (and spouse’s) income and assets as well as those of their parents are used to determine eligibility for needs-based financial aid programs."

[Emaheevul07]

But, if the parents just spent over $60k on two new cars and frequently eat at pricey restaurants, I'd want to slap them upside the head....especially if one of the parents doesn't even drive.

Yes, it's "their" money (well, what hasn't been given to them from various gov't aid), but to behave like this is a bit appalling.

These are the kinds of parents I have... and while I agree that it is appalling, I have learned that it's best not to think that way. To just not go there. I had to make a choice between being bitter and indignant, or find a way to deal, put it behind me, and keep a reasonably amiable relationship with my parents. OP needs to make that choice, and should probably choose the latter. Getting someone else to foot your bill for college isn't worth losing your parents, even if you believe your parents /should/ have been paying. And if someone in this situation dwells on this situation too much, it can lead to a really intolerable level of bitterness. It's best to just not go there. You can't change it, all you can do is choose how you will respond.

College is just so far over my parents heads, and they have never, ever been savers. This is just who they are. I can take them or leave them that way, and I'd rather take them, as much as their choices have infuriated me they are the only parents I get and college is only one small piece of my life in the grand scheme of things.

But if I take too much time to think about whether or not their decisions are acceptable, I do feel sick. I do feel indignant, at times. I was an unbearably angry person as an 18 year old-- it is so easy to get hung up on this issue at that age. It's just best not to go there. OP needs to focus on what they can do themselves, not on what they think their parents should be doing.

[GladGradDad]

To answer your question on how to discuss it with them - I think you simply need to have a frank and level-headed discussion regarding what they're willing to provide as financial support for you and you brother. You can explain to them that you need to know this information so you can have an appropriate plan for paying for college. You need to keep it as even-keeled as you can and not end up with a shouting/crying match because what you're really in need of is information.

You do need to keep a few things in mind though -
- You're not entitled to any of the money they might have.
- You may not, and likely do not, have an accurate picture of their overall expenses and plans for whatever funds they have. By 'accurate' I mean they may have less in the way of available funds than you think but they might also have more than you think. By 'picture' I mean the big picture including how they're situated regarding paying the bills, including medical bills, house mortgage, retirement funds, etc. They're not obliged to share any of these details with you but you just need to understand you likely don't really know the big picture.
- Your parents might not be clued in to the current costs of attending college regardless of their own educational level. You can help with this by working up a sheet with all of the expected expenses including tuition, housing, food, books, fees, travel, etc. and sharing it with them.

You need a plan B. If your parents decide to not contribute regardless of the reason and either don't cover parts of the cost or any of it, you need to figure out how you can cover the costs yourself. You can probably do this through loans and a part time job.

You should feel fortunate that the cost is as low as it is since many pay far more than that.

If that still doesn't work for you then consider a financial safety - i.e. another school that covers even more of the costs if there is one.

Finally, if you really need to, you could take a gap year and work and save your money to pay for school. Personally I'd go with the loans/part time job plan but some people do the full time work/saving plan.

[Lakemom]

Forget talking to your parents. Do you have any other relatives, a beloved uncle or aunt that might give you a no interest loan to get started?

[aigiqinf]

Worse come to worse, I can take loans--I realize that. I’m grateful that I have the opportunity to attend school, particularly one as good as Emory. What’s put this on my mind recently is that I’m exploring graduate schools, and I’m concerned about whether that’s in the realm of possibility, and that’s before considering undergraduate debt.

To clarify, I finished my first year of college and took a small loan the first year, but I was only able to provide for my basic living expenses (barely) out of money I saved in high school. I don’t think my parents are decidedly against supporting me--I’m not sure that they understand the expenses I have because they didn’t have to worry about them in they were in school. In my last semester of high school, I bought all my own groceries, clothing, etc. since I was over 18 and still in high school, the SSI went to me.

In other words, I’m not sure how to approach them most effectively. In part, a difficulty is that they have very few friends, so they don’t see how much other parents are supporting their kids.

I think if the OP needs extra funds for living expenses, etc. that a job would be a good place to start.

You might also have to get a summer job to make ends meet, or get a job at the school, but it's certainly workable.

In calculating "demonstrated need," schools already assume that you're saving a certain amount from the summer. I worked tirelessly to find a summer job, and I was fortunate enough to land a well-compensated internship and a funded fellowship. Unfortunately, I live too far away to commute and I'm not left with much after subtracting housing costs, food/grocery costs, gas/car maintenance, and formal (work) clothing.

I already hold an on-campus job during the year, but the university already includes your work-study award as part of your aid (so the money doesn't decrease the EFC). Further, additional income through additional work will simply raise the amount I’m asked to pay each year—as if an additional job would fit in my schedule. My school also does not allow you to attend part time.

The time to talk about finances is before making the application list.

I tried so hard to talk to them about finances, but they just weren't responsive. And my parents had no idea where I was applying to college, nor did they want to know. They begrudgingly reimbursed me for application fees and tests later on. They said I wasn’t going to get in anywhere and not to be too disappointed when I was rejected everywhere. They kept reminding me, “you don’t have to go to college if you don’t want to.”

I was very unassuming: "Dad, here's where I want to go and why. Can we afford it? If not, I’ll be okay." They assured me that they'd "figure it out.”

-no, it is assumed by the financial aid system that the STUDENT will pay for college

No, it is not. There is an EFC, Expected Family Contribution. A small part of that money is designated to come from the student; the rest is not. I simply don’t understand parents who refuse to provide even limited support, either out of greed, jealousy that they weren’t supported (“and turned out just fine”), or malfeasance.

Sorry, many, many, many kids pay their own way through school.

Where and when? If I were attending a state school, we’d be asked to pay more for school. And in this day and age, how many kids pay their own way through school despite parents who refuse to cover the EFC?

Where is it written in the parenting handbook that parents are required to pay for college for kids?

If I may be so bold, parenting implies a certain financial commitment. Further, basic success in the labor market is predicated on certain initial investments (e.g., appropriate clothes, transportation, some sort of housing). In this day in age, that includes some sort of postsecondary education or training, even if that’s not the most prestigious college one was admitted to. Frankly, the small amount my university and I are asking for really just goes to my basic living expenses.

My parents had their way paid through college—since their parents paid full freight from undergrad to doctorate, why can’t my parents make a small investment in my future?

Do your parents leave you home alone to eat ramen noodles when they go out to eat every meal or what happens there??

Emory is 8.5 hours away from my house, not that students are allowed to commute anyway. For my internship, I'm too far to commute. But for the short time I was home before my internship, they were kind enough to buy me a few basic groceries before going to to eat effectively every meal.

Forget talking to your parents. Do you have any other relatives, a beloved uncle or aunt that might give you a no interest loan to get started?

Unfortunately not. I have very few relatives. The one or two who are of means are in the nursing home with dementia.

[Munequita]

Didn't you post about a well paid internship for summer? Wouldn't it cover your expenses?

[busdriver11]

aigiqinf, ema gives you some great advice, and I agree with her.

This is just the crummy hand that you have been dealt. Better than some, but worse than most of your peers. No way would I do that to my kiddos, and no way will you do that to yours. I'm sure you will be a great parent and put your kids first. But unfortunately, not all parents do, and a generation or two ago, that was the norm. That sure doesn't help you now.

I would just accept the situation that you are basically on your own. If you don't have the time or money to visit during breaks, don't do it....and tell your parents that you can't afford it. When they go out to eat, ask to go with them, and hopefully they might pick up the check instead of asking you to! Do whatever you need to do to support yourself, ending up with the minimum amount of debt, and hopefully you'll have a high paying career field that you'll pay the debt off quickly.

One thing to consider, if you aren't directly asking them for assistance, they may think everything is just fine and not realize the situation you are in. Find a way to let them know how difficult this is for you. That your costs are $$ per year, you are earning $$, and having to borrow $$. If they can provide some assistance to you, it would really help. If they are tech savvy, sometimes it is easier to send an email than to come out and say it.