NYT: Education system unfair to boys

[QuantMech]

Glitter. My bete noir. Now that all of the scientific journals have electronic manuscript submission, I have to mail in the glitter separately to the editor, and hope that an editorial assistant will glue it neatly onto my manuscript!

[BCEagle91]

Put in a feature request to the Microsoft Office team to add a glitter toolbar.

[testobsessed]

Really, why should anyone have to do anything they don't like or that doesn't come naturally to them.

[MizzBee]

^ Hmm, acquire new skills, learn perseverance, part of a core education, to develop a work ethic, etc.

In all seriousness, maybe this isn't about education, but about parenting. Why should we expect less from our sons than our daughters?

[zoosermom]

It's not a question of less or more. It's a question of different.

There is no question that boys learn and develop differently. Who are you to say which is better?

I mean as long as we can make sure that those Evil*****People are miserable from as early as possibly as much as possible, what more could we possibly want?

[BCEagle91]

> In all seriousness, maybe this isn't about education, but about parenting. Why should
> we expect less from our sons than our daughters?

I don't know that we expect more or less but we can expect different things at different times based on biological development schedules.

[MizzBee]

But those bilogical differences have always been there and this is being treated as a new crisis. Why we should be discussing failure of our boys doesn't ring entirely true. As the mother of a son, I see the differences, but it was no excuse not to compete for high scores and the expectation that he do his best, even if it was a stupid assignment.

From observing classrooms in multiple states as a sub, parent volunteer, etc. I still see boys controlling the classrooms. Males may be going to school in smaller percentages, but the median wage is significantly higher for hs educated young adult males than for females($32,900 to $25,000 in 2009), so college is still not considered necessary for financial independence. I see it more as young girls catching up rather than young men falling behind. SAT scores don't show a gap for males, nor do emplyment figures.

[zoosermom]

As the mother of a son, I see the differences, but it was no excuse not to compete for high scores and the expectation that he do his best, even if it was a stupid assignment.

I have both daughters and a son. I expect my son to do his very best, but his very best involves listening carefully and taking the notes that engage his memory, not having a notebook where the Re line and the Do Now are lined up perfectly and the bullet points made with the exact words that the teacher uses.

He did a truly excellent science project for which he received a very high grade and learned a lot. The projects chosen for the science fair were almost all done by girls and almost all had glitter, sparkle and color coordination. The projects displayed within the classroom showed that almost all of the very academic and highest graded projects were done by boys and were ugly. Where does this set of priorities come from?

see it more as young girls catching up rather than young men falling behind. SAT scores don't show a gap for males, nor do emplyment figures.

Every child goes to school. Many do not take the SATs or become employed. Of that population, males are over-represented.

[BCEagle91]

> but it was no excuse not to compete for high scores

Is the goal high scores or learning?

> and the expectation that he do his best, even if it was a stupid assignment.

I don't have a problem with requiring someone to do their best but I don't see the point in frustrating students to the point where they give up.

> From observing classrooms in multiple states as a sub, parent volunteer, etc. I still
> see boys controlling the classrooms.

I've watched the top-ten students in our local school district for many years and it's dominated by women.

Perhaps this is a reason to homeschool - you can tailor the learning style to what works for the individual.

> but the median wage is significantly higher for hs educated young adult males
> than for females

I'd have to see the numbers and the breakdown by the kind of work. Male-dominated trades can pay quite well for those without a college degree - though there have been many of these kinds of jobs lost in the great recession.

> nor do emplyment figures.

BLS June 2012 shows that there is a 4 point spread between men and women over 20 years old in unemployment. The same spread exists between men and women over 16 years.

[QuantMech]

I think that a very great deal depends on the controlling model of the local school system, for students in public schools. Parents who can pick a private school have more options.

On the whole, I liked our local system. However, a number David Brooks' comments certainly ring true for it. The school system was anti-competitive, to the point of strenuously discouraging competition (except in middle-school or high-school athletics). Recess was still included, but the time was more limited than when I was a student. Cooperative learning was highlighted, including group tests, where a single paper examination was passed around among 4 students, each of whom had equal time to contribute to the answers on it. It seemed to me that the school day was less regimented than in my time, but there was a high premium placed on the kind of pleasant sociability that (*stereotype warning*) seems to me to come somewhat more naturally to girls, speaking very generally.

The earlier comment about the socioeconomic divide, with boys near the top generally doing well, but boys in the lower socioeconomic groups having a real struggle with school rings true to me.

Later on, I think it turns out that the traits that are emphasized for success in elementary school are not so advantageous for high-flying careers.

BCEagle91, I tried contacting the Microsoft Office team about the glitter toolbar. I sent them a diorama on the history of glitter, as they requested, but I guess it just wasn't neat enough.

[MizzBee]

Although the recession has hit hs educated males first, they still earn almost $10,000 more than females that only have hs degrees. Living in a blue collar town, I understand that one reason a young male may not be motivated in the classroom. Depending on who he knows, he may still end up at the mill earning $75,000+ at age 19.

I do think there are problems in education, but the numbers don't point to easy answers. And I do think parenting, video games, lack of physical outlets, lack of male teachers and a sense fo entitlement among white American males are all fair game for argument.

[BCEagle91]

I had a look around for glitter effects - it looks like Adobe Photoshop has the best that I've seen. GIMP may have them too - but it appears that your typical word processor doesn't have that support.

> The earlier comment about the socioeconomic divide, with boys near the top
> generally doing well, but boys in the lower socioeconomic groups having a real
> struggle with school rings true to me.

It might be interesting to do an analysis of male/female top ten students by district median income for a state.

[saintfan]

We cannot necessarily compare the group of men who are currently "in power" as CEOs, politicians and the like with boys and young men who have been through some school systems in the past 10 or so years. The curriculum and educational philosophy has changed markedly in many districs. When my D12 was in kindergarted our ditrict piloted a math curricumum called TERC (no idea what that stands for). It is heavily based on drawing and complete sentence descriptions of how you got your answer and why it worked - or didn't. You could have the wrong answer and describe your "strategy" well and get the points. D hated it, but as MiamiDAP said someplace back there, she just got it done and moved on. Many boys just flailed and failed because they refused to comply with the stupidity of explaining how they knew that 1+1=2 or draw anatomically correct turtles to demonstrate that fact. The "brighter" the kid the more trouble they had with writing about things that they just knew. Then there's the fine motor skills and penmanship issue. It took forever for DS15 to do his little worksheets and that doesn't include the time spent sulking under the dining room table.

Writing was the same - no open ended write about your weekend stuff. And, as Bay alluded to, if you do you'd better not write aboutt playing StarWars with your neighbors. They had this 4 square method of some kind with prompts like "write about and autumn leaf" while fitting your ideas into the blocks. Mr. verbal got writer's block every time which morphed into a behavior block. D12 really doesn't like to write, but she could follow the rules, giterdone and move on.

I never felt like it was teacher bias, but a curriculum issue. There was no room for the old school math wiz who understood quickly, and got the answer right.

[emeraldkity4]

Saint fan, my D could do math in her head, but she got it wrong on the WASL because she couldn't explain it.

Curriculum in some places seems skewed to gain test results, no comment on whether the tests used are the best way to evaluate achievement.

The glitter comments mystify me however, I have two girls and I don't think they ever used glitter on a project for school.
They did make Christmas cards using glitter when they were in preschool.

[zoosermom]

It's been my experience that the glitter and color coordination always came into play with regard to term projects that would be displayed for parent nights or for open houses. Always for an audience, and so the look of the projects always counted for more than the content.