High school transcript bias

[lookingforward]

What a family can spend on private pre-college tuition isn't correlated to the smarts or achievements of the individual kid. Stands to reason a chunk will end up in lesser colleges.

I'm a huge proponent of public education, all that one can experience in that environment. But, in my area, the ed situation is dire. One decent public hs. Smart kids are required to test in. For others, it's open.



Steve, wished we lived in MA.
Btw, the public schools all around DC, all but a few inner-city, are superb, tops.

[ucbalumnus]

Originally Posted by SteveMA

I'm VERY surprised at the number of private school kids going to lower end state schools or community colleges though. I guess I don't see why you would spend $15,000+/year on high school and "cheep out" for college??

Private high schools may cost a lot more... over $30,000 in tuition (non-boarding) for many around here (this includes some with elite academics, but also others that are not elite in academics). The Catholic schools are significantly less expensive.

But perhaps the students who went to expensive private high school and then on to community college or lower end state schools did so because they did not do well enough in high school to get into a "better" college than community college or lower end state school (maybe they also got into a lower end private school, but decided that it was not worth the money over a lower end state school).

[ucbalumnus]

Originally Posted by 2collegewego

In our area, there are a handful of excellent Catholic schools but most are poorer academically than the public schools. That also holds true of most Christian schools and the Jewish day schools. The purpose of those schools is to raise the kids in the faith.

Isn't this also the case at the college level, where there are a lot of religious* colleges without much of an academic reputation but presumably exist to provide a religious environment and curriculum to the college students, but only a few with good academic reputations?

*Meaning a strongly religious environment and/or religious curriculum, not merely religious affiliation.

[lookingforward]

There are so many colleges I would call poor academic experiences. I often wonder why parents put the big bucks into those. So many of those kids don't come out intellectually polished and could have increased their future prospects through professional training.

Btw, my own socks have been knocked off by many kids who were homeschooled for initially religious reasons.

[SteveMA]

lookingforward--I think you bring up a good point-indirectly-what one person considers a "poor" education is going to differ. So many people on CC especially are focused on the book learning on a campus and aren't concerned so much with the overall college experience, for example. While obviously you want to be challenged in your classes, there is a lot more to going to college then what you learn in the textbooks. Looking around at the CEO's and other C-level people we know, do business with, etc., none of them went to schools that are considered "good" schools on CC and I'll stack their paychecks against your paycheck any day .

[lookingforward]

Excellent point. Not arguing it, just sometimes feels like the degree requirement for many jobs is artificial. Not all, but many. A rookie work period could serve the same purpose. OJT. Farm team, to polish you.

[Vladenschlutte]

What a family can spend on private pre-college tuition isn't correlated to the smarts or achievements of the individual kid. Stands to reason a chunk will end up in lesser colleges.

You might expect a family to understand that their kid is not a good student and not waste the money on sending them to a $15K/year high school when the highest degree they'll ever end up with is an ABA.

Spending $20,000 per yr on k-12 may have tapped out the education fund. That amount is on the low end of COA for an instate public university, and perhaps student didn't find enough merit aid to lower costs. Cost is also not the determining factor for quality.

I have a hard time believing anyone capable enough of earning that amount of money, is dumb enough to spend all of it on elementary and high school education without saving any for college. Only exception I can think of is it they've been out of work for a while right before the kid is about to start college.

[lookingforward]

Not all familes choose privates because their kids' academic level is so exceptional they just have to have it. As we're saying here, many publics exceed privates. 15k isn't the cheapest, but it's far less than many. Trinity/NYC, a day school mentioned earlier, is pushing 40k for high school. But that includes lunch and there is finaid. Some families just have an extra 30-40 times the number of kids.

So, is there grade inflation? At that price, I thnk "inflation" is too simplistic a concept.

[bovertine]

At 40K I hope those lunches are catered by the Four Seasons.

[SteveMA]

Vladenschlutte--even in a situation where the main breadwinner is out of work, there is financial aid to help in those situations at 4 year schools. Again, if you live in an area where hardly anyone graduates from high school, you have to be careful what you wear to school for being pegged in a gang, etc., I get sending kids to an expensive K-12 program even without college in mind, but minus that it just doesn't compute for me.

[giterdone]

We have very good public schools and I live in a neighborhood where parents sacrifice to send their kids to private high schools. At least here, its not done for academic rigor or future college prospects reasons; but rather the value(s) and character that are believed to be brought out through religious vs. public education. And the opportunities (EC and otherwise) afforded to kids in a smaller setting. Particularly important during the formative years. The "privates" aren't known for being college prep schools. I think that's a stereotype and broad misunderstanding of most choices for private k-12 education.

[emeraldkity4]

SteveMa- regarding why pay for K-12-
For the same reason reeianz mentioned. A strong K -12 education prepares a student to make the most out of what comes next. They may be in a better position after an individualized education as you can procure from private schools, to be admitted to schools that meet full need or give merit awards.
They also will be better prepared to get the most that they can out of a public school.
As has been commented previously, looking at the background of profs that teach undergrads at the most competitive schools, and comparing them to profs at good state universities- you aren't going to find a whole lot of difference. I've known really excellent profs at state schools including community colleges who went on to teach at the top twenty schools, and I've known comparable profs who have stayed at community colleges or state schools by choice. ( granted I also know a teacher who was been courted by the top private prep in the area for years, but has remained put at the inner city public)

I'd also add that private schools also offer quite a lot of financial aid to students for K-12 when that is a priority. When you live in an urban area as I do, and wish to remain there for work and amenities, but the public schools don't have have lot to offer your child, a private school can give them support that it may be difficult to piece together yourself.

I've also known families who could well afford to send their kids to any school in the country, but their child may have found a program at a state school that wasn't replicated elsewhere.

Neither my H or I have attended a 4 yr college. I didn't graduate high school, my spouse barely did. I attended good public schools in a posh Seattle suburb, but little support for kids who weren't on the top academic or preferably athletic track. I was determined that wasn't going to happen to my kids.

[rymugsy]

I go to private Catholic school, so I may be biased, but I think that there are opportunities here that you can't get at even the magnet public schools in my area (which are supposed to be quite good). I know I get much more homework than my friends at public schools, it's much harder to earn an "A" at my school, and we have more advanced courses. My school also costs about $8,000 a year (less than most numbers tossed around on here) I think that because it is more difficult than most publics in my area (and my area had some good publics), but I think the most important part is that I get "nutured" by the small and inclusive environment

Also, I know most students at my school that go to community college/low tier states schools do it for cost (they were on scholarships while at school so it's not like they spent all their money on high school) or are doing it for sports/health purposes

[ucbalumnus]

Originally Posted by Vladenschlutte

I have a hard time believing anyone capable enough of earning that amount of money, is dumb enough to spend all of it on elementary and high school education without saving any for college. Only exception I can think of is it they've been out of work for a while right before the kid is about to start college.

It is not inconceivable that someone lives in a state with good public universities, but is unable to afford to buy or rent a home in a school district with good K-12 schools that is within reasonable commuting range of his/her job and that of his/her spouse. The may figure that the price of private school is less expensive than the price of buying or renting in a better school district, but that public university is a good choice for a low (in terms of college) cost.

Another possibility is that they get enough financial aid from the private K-12 school (especially if one of the parents works there), but (perhaps due to poor application strategy with respect to looking for college financial aid and scholarships) they were only able to affordable acceptances out of the state universities.

[ucbalumnus]

Originally Posted by rymugsy

I go to private Catholic school, so I may be biased, but I think that there are opportunities here that you can't get at even the magnet public schools in my area (which are supposed to be quite good). I know I get much more homework than my friends at public schools, it's much harder to earn an "A" at my school, and we have more advanced courses. My school also costs about $8,000 a year (less than most numbers tossed around on here)

The Catholic schools around here seem to be much less expensive than most other private schools. However, they do vary in terms of academic strength; some have excellent academics and attract many out-of-area and non-Catholic students because of that, while others attract mainly local Catholic students because their academics are nothing special compared to the local public schools.