Financial status' affect on college admissions

[lmkh70]

My dh and I are having a debate. There are people on his side of the family who have had everything paid for them every step of the way, and this will include college. Then people on my side who need financial aid, which includes our children. I told my dh that this affects which schools our children apply to (and nieces and such on my side) where as certain family members of his, who are not so bright, are having more opportunities just because of money.

I have specifically seen people here post that their child could have gotten in to this school or that, but they needed financial aid and the school was not need blind, or they claimed to be need blind when they were not.

There are other issues. For example, one niece is at a private school where every child receives As in pretty much every class. The school does not rank. They have multiple valedictorians. Our children take AP classes and do not always earn As. Plus, sometimes, there is an entire class where no one earned an A.


My children do community service and extra curriculars. We work hard with our children. Our children also score higher than that niece. However, when the admissions decisions do come out on the kids, I am betting that niece, who specializes in playing video games, will get in to "higher ranked" schools than our children, who will have to check that they need financial aid. I already saw dh's cousin get in to a top big name school, even though he was a major partier, had OK grades, but did not need any financial aid.

What do you think?

(not a competition between families, there is more issue)

[paperplane]

This probably isn't what you want to hear but my advice is just to focus on your kids and your situation (you need FA) vs comparing to other people's situation.

Your kids sound great and with planning I'm sure you'll find a good fit for them, that you can make work financially. That's all that matters in the end.

Good luck in the search!

[lmkh70]

It wasn't that. Dh was comparing his situation in going to college to our children. I told him it is more complicated with our children than it was for him. Our children need financial aid and one has special needs. Also, class ranking is an issue...where as he went to a private school where there was no ranking. My dh only applied to one school....U of Chicago, and got him. He never had to worry about finances, his parents just paid. Same with relatives on his side. He and his cousins and their kids all have been in private Catholic schools, and have skated by on no homework, and plenty of social life.

Where as, our children, in a top ranked public school, take mostly AP classes, and struggle and work hard. And they have to think about where they can earn scholarships and other financial aid for colleges. Dh is in complete disbelief that things are any different for our children than they have been for him or his relatives.

[NJSue]

certain family members of his, who are not so bright, are having more opportunities just because of money.

Well, money buys opportunity. That's too bad, but it's how the world works. College admissions in most cases are not based on pure meritocracy. The thing about education, though, is that the price merely buys a place at the banquet. It's up to the student to choose wisely and well from the menu. A brighter, more motivated student will get a better experience than a lazier, dimmer one, regardless of financial resources.

I agree with paperplane that your best strategy is probably not to worry too much about the relative injustice, and focus instead on researching and identifying the best options for your own children, given their stats and your finances. There are excellent educational opportunities to be had at in-state public institutions and at private schools giving merit scholarships to students with profiles they want.

[NJSue]

Dh is in complete disbelief that things are any different for our children than they have been for him or his relatives.

Many of us are shocked at how the college admissions landscape has changed since our own college days. It really is a different ballgame. In our household, we also had a huge adjustment to make in our expectations.

Why is your husband surprised? Is he ignorant of the costs? Has he filled out an EFC calculator with you?

[fogfog]

OP

Your students will do well in life because they know the value of working and are rewarded for their efforts.
On grades etc...admissions looks at the school profile and your student's transcript in that context. Also the AP scores on tests is an important indicator because of schools with grade inflation etc.

It is a good idea for every applicant to choose schools where he/she will be happy, including maybe a reach or two, several great matches and a couple of safeties.


The financial aid process is tricky. Merit aid, Need aid etc. Your family should decide together how much you are comfortable spending and what the parameters are --
in the event you are footing the whole bill (no need nor merit aid). Also it is possible that Aid changes from year to year.

FWIW, my DH was shocked when he heard the $$,$$$ it was going to cost for our K1. From the schools "on the list" my DH spent an afternoon researching the cost of universities COA and dispelled the myths/beliefs that college cost what it did nearly 30 years ago....

You and your DH should go to the fin aid pages of the schools being considered so you have an idea of what is your price point etc.

Seeing those things in black and white from a third party will help.

Check out the fin aid calculators....however be warned that fin aid officers apply a whole lot of other litmus tests beyond the calculator and so aid could be disappointing.


RE your relatives...you will need to put blinders on and just realize that you will do the best for you students by not entertaining/discussing what someone else has or deserves. I also wouldn't entertain conversation with those relatives about your student's choices...and keep it a family matter.

Peace.

[lmkh70]

It is really truly not about me feeling slighted. I made choices in my life to put certain things ahead of dollars. I am not at all slighted about that.

The problem I am having is...I will try to explain more in depth....My mother-in-law keeps comparing the kids. And my dh too. DH (husband) has been giving me a hard time about why things are so complicated. Add to it that MIL keeps making remarks about my kids and how they must be bad students if they are not planning to go to the same colleges as so-n-so. For example, my son, who I mentioned in another post (has autism spectrum disorder) actually has good test scores and has taken almost all AP classes and such. His main colleges on his list are schools such as UT Dallas. My MIL had the nerve to say that our son must be flunking out of school if he is considering a place like community college or UT Dallas. UT Dallas actually gives great scholarships. Plus, it is close enough to home that he can commute. My MIL says that stuff openly in front of our children. I was talking to dh about putting an end to that.

Then to add to it, DH is giving me a hard time about things. To give an example of the difference, I took AP math in public high school and he took AP math in a private Catholic school. We got to college and I tested out of the first year (neither of us took the AP exam, but that was over 20 years ago) of calculus and did fine in multivariable. I had gotten maybe B's in AP math. My dh, however, who earned A's all the way through and graduated with straight A's, could not even test out of first semester math. He says first semester math also kicked his butt and he struggled through Calculus 1 in college.

DH says he cannot see why our children do not have straight A's in high school, afterall, he did, and he barely did any homework. Our children have tons of homework. His relatives children have little to no homework.

THEY are the ones comparing and acting like I failed, and my children are failing. It is not even a read between the lines kind of thing.

Then my dh says our children should just pick the college they want to go to, apply, and then go there. It just does not work that way. College admissions are more competitive, and when you are specifically trying to find a good college with good scholarships and grants and such, it takes even more.

[Wordworker]

Your partying relatives may get into big-name schools but will be hard-pressed to stay unless they change their work habits.

Regarding MIL, don't visit or invite her to your house. (Her son can tell her why.) If she calls and says something, hang up immediately. If you're in the same place somehow, walk away. If you're comfortable doing it, encourage your children to do the same.

[sylvan8798]

Originally Posted by lmkh70

The problem I am having is...I will try to explain more in depth....My mother-in-law keeps comparing the kids. And my dh too. DH (husband) has been giving me a hard time about why things are so complicated. Add to it that MIL keeps making remarks about my kids and how they must be bad students if they are not planning to go to the same colleges as so-n-so.

It seems to me like there are a lot of issues here in many directions. Not just MIL and DH, but yours as well. Unless you and DH want to get involved in counseling, I suggest minimizing the discussions on the matter (and not at all with MIL). Take charge of the process along with your own kids, and then smile and tell DH where to address the check.

[menloparkmom]

"Dh is in complete disbelief that things are any different for our children than they have been for him or his relatives.
Then my dh says our children should just pick the college they want to go to, apply, and then go there. It just does not work that way."

does your DH think that the Soviet Union still exists? That Reagan is still president? that Bread costs 35 cents a loaf?
In other words, your DH is living in a time warp and needs to wake up. When he went to college, there were MILLIONS fewer women applying to college as well. These days the MAJORITY of college students in the US are women. There are now tens of thousands of applicants from all over the WORLD, in addition to the millions of US students , all vying for essentially the same number of Freshman openings that existed 25-30 years ago. At Chicago, there are now over TEN times the number of applicants than when he applied.[ Its doubtful he would even been accepted now, though he may find that hard to believe. ]

I suggest you collect data that shows the number of applications colleges receive these days , their acceptance rates, the GPA and SAT scores of admitted students[ this can be found at the Collegeboard website and by researching the Common Data set information available on most college websites] and show him the numbers. Maybe then he'll see the light.
The children of families who CAN afford to pay full freight have a HUGE admissions advantage these days when applying to colleges that are need aware, as most are. Money does not grow on trees ,except at the most competitive and richest Universities.
If he continues to be oblivious to the reality of college acceptances you will have to be the realist in the family. We'll be here to help you.

[paperplane]

This sounds like a tough situation. Can you talk to your husband directly, and make him understand that you need him to listen to reality?

If not, then my suggestion is for you, independently, to research your kid's best bet(s) and be sure a couple of the schools they apply to are those, so that when admissions and financials come around, your kid will have at least one option you can afford and that they will do well at.

The best things to do to convince him that it's changed is probably to find news articles from sources he trusts and show him how much it's all changed. And also maybe you could see if you could get him to sit down with you and run net-price calculators at a few schools, so he could see what you'd be likely to have to pay.

I agree with avoiding MIL as much as you can! Ouch that sounds toxic.

[NJSue]

Then to add to it, DH is giving me a hard time about things....

DH says he cannot see why our children do not have straight A's in high school, afterall, he did, and he barely did any homework.

And why is he giving you a hard time about it? They are his kids too! He's as responsible as you are for their outcomes and performance.

You just have to stop listening to ill-informed extended family members (and others) who are completely ignorant of the realities of higher education today. Don't let them get under your skin. They do not know what they are talking about.

There is another thread on here somewhere called "Smile and Nod." Many people have gone through what you have.

[Pennylane2011]

I hope you can involve DH into the financial aspects of this. He may not know how to handle this stage of life well... after all.. look at how HIS parent is handling it. I hope he is willing to read these posts and look at the picture as it is today.

Yes, in my day, I too took the SAT once, applied to one school, and got in. If I applied to the same school with the same grades and stats, I probably would not get in. My kids have done much better than I did, and still must work much harder than I did to get into the same level college as I attended. Also, in those days, we typed our applications. We were not able to send as many applications on the computer as kids can now. Admissions chances were much better. And the cost today is much higher.

Many years ago, I read an article called "Blinded by their strengths" about assessing kids with Asperger's by only their academic levels. Many of the kids on the spectrum have weaker social, emotional, and organizational skills, and it is a mistake to believe these delays are purposeful or even "failures". Your MIL may never get it. The concept of high functioning autism did not exist in her day, but that is her problem. You know your children, and it looks like you have done a great job of raising good kids. Keep up the good work and don't let the judgments of others who have no idea get in the way of finding the best colleges (now or later when your son is ready) for your kids.

[mathmom]

Colleges are often (though not always!) pretty savvy about which schools give A's out like candy and which don't and make adjustments accordingly. My nephew in private school and my son in public school (who seemed very similar in intelligence as youngsters) had almost identical admissions results. He was a scholarship kid with good but not perfect grades at a private school, my son was a full pay kid at a public school. They both ended up at schools that were perfect fits for them. If you pay attention to what's best for your kid and his needs, it really is easier to pay ignore the questions. You can probably educate your husband on current realities, but I'd avoid your MIL if your husband can't get her to shut up.

[ohiobassmom]

they have to think about where they can earn scholarships and other financial aid for colleges.

Many families have to consider these things. Nice if some don't, but I think it's not the norm, not anymore anyway.

S very definitely shaped his college app list with merit and FA in mind. D will do the same. Opportunities are certainly there but we have to work harder than full-pay families to find them.

Do your best to tune out your MIL (and tell your kids to, too). Doesn't sound like she has anything helpful to add.

DH needs to know what it will cost to "pick the college they want to go to, apply, and then go there", and also, depending on the college, how unlikely that may be. I'm thinking the other side of the family has a sad wake up call coming if they think just because they can pay they can go anywhere, straight As or not.

And if DH doesn't want to involve himself in a "complicated" process, I agree - it's OK to take the lead and help your kids without his input.