Administration handling of sexual assault

[Consolation]

Originally Posted by poetgrl

But, you know, my preference is for these cases to get to a criminal justice process, for the police to take the reports and the names. I think in the case of true aquaintance rape, the perps name will show up at the police station again, if the school walks it over there and makes sure the names get taken. This really is a serial type of offender, which would protect the innocent, imho.

My thoughts exactly.

I think that one reason why these discussions keep focusing on the "both drunk but neither comatose, both willing at the time, she changes her mind later" scenario is liminality. People usually do't want to discuss the middle ground on an issue--any issue--where they are in agreement in large part. In the case of campus rapes, people agree on the obvious cases, including but not limited to physical force, unconscious girl, etc. It is the things on the fringes that people want to discuss.

Personally, I have given up discussing the fringe cases in favor of focusing on attacking the heart of the problem. There are three ways to do that that I can see at this point: 1) raise kids to respect the innate worth and dignity of every human being, 2) educate them about sexuality and about how substances influence behavior, and get them to think outside of their own personal drives/needs to put themselves in the place of the other person, 3) report rapes to the police and investigate/prosecute them. Don't brush them under the rug. Empower and support kids to feel that they can and should report, the sooner the better, but in any case as soon as they are ready.

[Proudpatriot]

It is not just me that considers this issue a matter of school policy. If you take the time to read what you posted you will see that while compliance with Title IX is mandatory, colleges have quite a bit of leeway in implementing Title IX. There is nothing in Title IX which requires schools to have a specific policy, just that whatever the policies are must conform to Title IX.

Of course this is an issue where there is much gray area. People drink. People have sex. Having sex with someone who is unable to give consent is a crime (not just a matter of school policy) however, simply being drunk does not mean a person cannot give consent. How drunk must a person be to be unable to consent to sex? Intoxication is a spectrum. I know that for me, two drinks changes my mood, but is not enough so that I cannot consent to any activity. What is the tipping point and how would a person know what that tipping point is?

This is an important issue on college campuses and should not be taken lightly. However, it is not an issue which is always a sexual assault (although there are times when it clearly is sexual assault). I think that schools should have policies that protect women from sexual assault. I also think that schools should have policies that protect men from false accusations. Either extreme is harmful to the college community.

[busdriver11]

"In any study of human behavior, whether it be Psych 101 or NOVA training (offering debriefings to emotionally traumatized after Columbine, Katrina, etc..), the most common reaction following something horrific is, in any order, shock, disbelief, denial, cataclysm of emotions (anger, shame, guilt, hate, rage). Why would you deny this person the human reaction of denial? She had a plan to deal with this attack while not "outing" herself and subjecting herself to the looks, the whispers, and possible retribution from her attacker and his friends. Some survivors of horrific acts feel that they give their attackers less power by not acknowleding that it ever happened, or "toughing it out". They have been victimized; I believe it is their right to decide how they will deal with it. Clinically, there are paths that statistically will show the best outcomes, but people don't live in clinics. I have not walked a mile in her shoes, so I would not begin to judge her or her actions."

I don't think this is about judging someone, nor denying her anything. She did what she wanted, at her pace, though I don't think waiting so long was helpful for her. But talking about it to one's girls makes it a learning situation, and possibly helpful to them. My opinion is that we should convince our girls to just skip the shame and guilt portion, maybe go straight to rage, we'd have far healthier women. There are few things worse that having been gravely wronged....and doing nothing about it. Encouraging women to marinate in their guilt and discomfort so they can take care of these issues at their own pace is, in my opinion, very disempowering. It allows the perpetrator to continue getting away with it, putting others at risk. It makes it harder to prosecute, and the woman keeps on suffering.

It should be clear to women what course to pursue. Scream, fight, attack, call the cops. Bring this out of the darkness and do it right away. It's not like it is shameful for college kids to have sex any more, that is happening all over the place. It is always better to be strong and brave, even if it is not the easy thing to do, than to submit quietly to humiliation and self doubt.

[Proudpatriot]

busdriver11:

I agree that the young woman at Amherst did what she wanted. She is entitled to do as she wanted. However, she cannot turn around months later and make it Amherst's fault that things shook out the way they did. I feel bad for her because there is no way for her to have anticipated the ways she would be affected.

[busdriver11]

proudpatriot, I can't comment on whether it is legitimate that Amherst is somehow at fault for how things for turned out for this young woman. We are only hearing her side of the story, and to me, this sounds like someone who has serious emotional problems. Who thinks that she was emotionally abused for 17 years, and therefore was strong because of it, which sounds really off. She seems to think of herself as a very strong woman, but her actions are those of a person who considers herself perpetually a victim. No one can foretell the future, but if I was a betting woman, I would suspect this girl will find herself in situations where she feels victimized for decades. I hope not. It is impossible to judge whether everything she says is completely accurate and the school was purposefully at fault, or merely the usual big bureaucracy, with an issue being that she was unable to advocate for herself. This is one person's view of what happened to them, and I'd guess you'd get a completely different picture if you read the school records, which are certainly private.

The point is, you don't depend upon the college to make everything better and comfortable for you. They are not your parents. If you are victimized, you call the police immediately. End of story.

[absweetmarie]

I'm very sorry your were sexually assaulted and raped, emeraldkity4. I cannot imagine the trauma, especially for a young woman. As a survivor of these incidents, you are in a good position to say why reporting the crimes is so difficult. I wonder, though, what are your thoughts about the need for more reporting? And what would have to happen to make more people report rape when it occurs?

[Proudpatriot]

Busdriver11:

I think the saddest part of this young woman's story is that she did not have family to help her through this very difficult time in her life. I am sure that there are things the school did wrong. However, when they are faced with an accusation after the fact and a seriously ill young woman the administrators did what they thought was the right thing. I am not sure that everything they die (based on her article) was actually the right thing but you must remember they had a suicidal young woman with no family on their hands. First and foremost they had to ensure that she lived.

I agree with your statement that if you are the victim of a crime you call the police. If you don't call the policy you can't complain months later that nobody did anything about the crime. Even if that decision came to you at great personal cost there is simply no way to prove that a sexual assault happened months later if the crime is not reported in a timely fashion. That doesn't mean people don't believe her. I do believe her. But people are not convicted of a crime simply because someone says that it happened with no actual proof that it happened.

Ladies-let's make a vow that if we are victims of sexual assault we will call the police immediately.

[momofthreeboys]

^^I got slammed for that opinion on a different thread a number of days ago, but I believe that forced sex is a crime. If it's a crime then reporting it to the police begins a process of investigation, creates documentations, substantiates anything the student tells the college and frankly adds a ton of credibility to the claim. The fact that prosecutor's often don't want to prosecute is unfortunate, but the student still has the avenues through the college open - to mediation, to therapy, to a judicial council etc.

[emeraldkity4]

I was sexually assaulted when I was in junior high, by other students on campus, after school. I was waiting for the activity bus.
The school was locked, I told my mother who told the school. I remember talking to the counselor at the school about it, but to my knowledge nothing was done.
I was meant to feel like I was to blame somehow.

Probably why when I was raped a few years later i didn't bother reporting it.
Why be assaulted twice?

[emeraldkity4]

when I ws initially assaulted it was the early 70's, the womens rights movement was starting to become more widespread, but it's my impression there was also pushback in more conservative suburban communities like where i grew up.

Having womens centers in colleges and health centers in high schools hopefully give girls an easily accessible resource for support, not only to get support to go through the ordeal of seeking justice and healing afterwards, but to have a place to find their power.
it would have been helpful for me to have had a resource like a self defense class, & a discussion group about how to deal with body changes, especially for those whose parents arent comfortable discussing it.
( I matured very quickly- practically overnight, and it was quite a source of fascination for the boys, but it was horrible for me.)

i was extremely shy, and vulnerable. That experience made me feel even more that i didnt have control over what happened to me, and it took a long time before i could accept I didnt deserve it.

one thing i thought was interesting however, was when i was at a formal social function about fifteen years later. one of the men who had assaulted me approached the group I was with and greeted me like we were old friends! i was horrified and did not stop my impulse to flee.
He was always a BMOC type, and I think he had convinced himself that any attention he gave to anyone was positively recieved.

i

[busdriver11]

That is terrible emeraldkity. I am so sorry that those awful things happened to you, especially when you were so young. I hope you get another chance to meet that man who assaulted you, with more warning this time....and have the opportunity to loudly say what he did to you, in front of his wife (hopefully while pouring a drink over his head).

I know that was a different time in our history, but I am convinced that right now, one is better off reporting to the police than to the school. No matter what they say, I suspect it is unlikely that the top priority of school administrators is the welfare of the victim. It is very possible that the schools would like the problem to go away, disappear, not reflect on the reputation on the school, and they don't have to tools to professionally investigate a rape anyways. I can't say that would have helped you so many years ago though. I hope things are different now.

[alh]

EK: I am so sorry.

Many recent articles address why young women don't necessarily report sexual assault, rape today. Here's one:

College campuses are a major black hole when it comes to sexual violence.

The issue of silence and under-reporting is magnified on a college campus due to a phenomenon theorists label as “campus rape culture.” It is the notion that we live in a society that not only allows for rape, but in some ways sanctions it.

There are multiple characteristics that form and perpetuate the growth of campus rape culture. Holding men in esteem for being sexually active while looking down on women who are equally sexually active, is one indication of the campus rape culture that we live in but rarely think about.

Campus rape culture goes well beyond Jerry Sandusky | PennLive.com

a few more:

Avery Stone: The Death of Innocence at Amherst College

Pervasive rape culture in college administrations: Amherst College edition *TRIGGER WARNING* Smith'd

http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012...-rape-culture/

[alh]

I am wondering how we empower young women so that they don't hesitate to report rape. How does the campus culture illustrated below impact college women? Why do women allow this? Or is it all just harmless?

An Amherst fraternity printed and sold T-shirts last year that featured a bruised woman, wearing only a bra and underwear, tied up and suspended from a spit while roasting over a fire. At the same time, a pig stood at the side of the short smoking a cigarette. The caption of the shirt, which was created to promote the fraternity's annual pig roasting event, read "Roasting Fat Ones Since 1847."

In a recent column, Amherst junior Dana Bolger denounced the administration's silence over the offensive shirt in an Oct. 8 blog post that condemned the school's sexual culture. According to Bolger, the school chose to hold an "unadvertised, effectively closed-door discussion" about the shirt rather than confront the incident publicly.

"Amherst’s silence concerning the shirt shouldn’t come as much of a surprise," Bolger wrote. "We’re all part of a larger culture, one that excuses (and often promotes) the objectification of female bodies, the glamorization of violence against women, and the normalization of rape."

Offensive T-shirt sparks criticism against Amherst | Cross Campus | Yale Daily News

Of course, Yale has had their own issues with a hostile campus environment. If one believes such a thing exists.

edit: and of course I can't link to all the politicians who, in recent hours, days, weeks, months, have had something to say about rape. That goes beyond campus culture.

[emeraldkity4]

I believe in karma, & believe that the universe will bite back without me having to get involved. But I appreciate the good thoughts.

I hope that with more women in the police force that things have changed. However locally we seem to have a preponderance of people joining the force who seem to be attracted to the power behind the uniform, not because they want to help the community. Although yesterday the mayor has reluctantly agreed to consider an independent monitor to oversee reforms in the police force.

In our local school district, employees have been apparently instructed to handle reports of crimes by reporting internally, not to the police.

School districts are not set up to investigate rapes and assaults, any more than universities are.

I think we need to incorporate teaching citizenship and about individual rights, not as late as in high school with American government, but earlier possibly as part of US history or health in middle school or earlier.
When I was in school, the only health related curriculum i remember is one morning in 6th gd, the girls watched a film strip ( that never mentioned sex) on menstruation while the boys had recess, and it was reversed in the afternoon with a film for the boys.
Big change when my kids were in school & the whole class watched together, a movie on giving birth!

( you show that at the right age & they will have second thoughts about ever having sex for a looong time)

Children should know of the importance of being involved with their community, the rights & responsibilities of every citizen, including the importance of being an informed voter, to learning that they have the right to say no when someone is hurting or neglecting them.

It may seem like common sense, but even my parents who weren't abusive, but just wrapped up in their own problems weren't able to communicate that to me.

It's so much better now though I think, both boys and girls are raised with stories like
The Paperbag Princess., to supplement things like I dream of Jeannie.

[poetgrl]

EK-- just got home from work, wanted to send you cyberhugs. so sorry you faced that, and when you were so young.