California State University trustees propose fees to deter perpetual students

[ucbalumnus]

http://www.calstate.edu/bot/agendas/...ep-finance.pdf
November 13-14, 2012 | Agendas | Board of Trustees | CSU

Proposed fees:

Graduation Incentive Fee: Students who have earned 160 semester or 240 quarter units (150 semester or 225 quarter units from fall 2014) will pay an extra fee of $372 to $399 per semester unit or $248 to $266 per quarter unit. Note that the normal number of units for a bachelor's degree is 120 semester or 180 quarter units (30 semester or 45 quarter units per year), though some majors at some campuses may be slightly higher (but below the limits listed above). The limit for junior transfers will be 80 semester or 120 quarter units at CSU before the extra fee is invoked.

Third Tier Tuition Fee: Students taking more than 17 units per term will pay $182 to $209 per semester or $122 to $139 per quarter unit for each additional unit. (Note: the first two existing tiers for tuition are 0.1 to 6 units and 6.1 or more units.)

Course Repeat Fee: Students repeating a course will pay $91 to $105 per semester or $61 to $70 per quarter unit.

The intent of these fees is to discourage students from taking up more than "their fair share" of class space in the CSUs, so that more students can be accommodated.

[fluteloop]

Graduation Incentive Fee: I would hope they would look at higher unit majors like myself and make exceptions. I need 161 units to graduate on a semester system if I took no "extra" classes.

Third Tier Tuition Fee:I would have to pay extra because I'm planning on taking 20 units next semester. I've also taken 19 and 18 units before, so this would cost me a lot over time.

Course Repeat Fee: For music majors, this would be a nightmare. I'm taking the same courses because it is required (repertory, wind ensemble, choir, private lessons)

I like none of these fees.

[Catria]

I don't think these fees will achieve their intended goals.

[mom2collegekids]

Students who have earned 160 semester or 240 quarter units (150 semester or 225 quarter units from fall 2014) will pay an extra fee of $372 to $399 per semester unit or $248 to $266 per quarter unit.

As long as they're not including AP credits in there, that's ok. But if they start including AP/IB credits, then that is going to affect whether kids take AP exams or whether they'll refuse to have their scores sent....until maybe their last semester in college...lol.

[ucbalumnus]

Originally Posted by fluteloop

I would hope they would look at higher unit majors like myself and make exceptions. I need 161 units to graduate on a semester system if I took no "extra" classes.

The highest unit music major at Sonoma State (music education) lists 131-137 semester units:
SSU Music Department - Majors and Minors
The others (applied music, jazz studies, and music liberal arts) all list 120 semester units. However, this is with only 0-7 units of free electives (i.e. units not specified by either the major or general education requirements), so exact schedule planning to ensure that every course taken is useful for some requirement is necessary from the start.

If the proposals were changed to the following, would you find them objectionable?

Graduation Incentive Fee: for majors requiring >120 semester or >180 quarter units, the limit before the fee is invoked is the number of units for the major plus 30 semester or 45 quarter units. Does not include credit for AP, IB, or college courses taken while in high school.

Third Tier Tuition Fee: for majors requiring an average course load of greater than 15 units per term in the normal course plan, the limit is that average course load plus 2 units per term.

Course Repeat Fee: does not apply to courses designed or intended to be repeated for credit.

[bluebayou]

The Third Tier fee doesn't make much sense to me. If a student wanted to take 20 units a semester and graduate early -- thus freeing up space, why should that student not get a discount?

OTOH, I'm all for dinging the perpetual student, over a certain max units..

Cal State should also charge more for remediation classes. Obviously, few students would pay the fee, so they'd take the course at a juco instead. In any event, that too would reduce budgetary pressure on the CSU system.

[ucbalumnus]

Originally Posted by bluebayou

The Third Tier fee doesn't make much sense to me. If a student wanted to take 20 units a semester and graduate early -- thus freeing up space, why should that student not get a discount?

It may be that they are looking at the accounting the cost and space by course or unit (like the CCs), as opposed to by student (like the UCs). CSU's current tuition structure seems to be a hybrid, with in-state tuition in two tiers of 0.1-6.0 and 6.0+ units, but with out-of-state tuition on a per-unit basis.

2012-13 Schedule of Systemwide Fees | Systemwide and Campus Mandatory Fees | Student Fees | Budget | CSU

[mathinokc]

Not a fan of charging more for taking "too many" credits in one semester.

If the concern is that those students are hogging classes, maybe let them register for up to 17 units during an initial registration run and for units above 17 later?

I also agree with the caveat that they shouldn't force people into paying extra for "overage" if a lot of their credits came from AP/IB.

[ucbalumnus]

Originally Posted by mathinokc

If the concern is that those students are hogging classes, maybe let them register for up to 17 units during an initial registration run and for units above 17 later?

Something like that makes sense for schools where each student pays the same tuition for any number of units.

CSU seems to have one foot in the per-student tuition method (like UC) and one foot in the per-unit tuition method (like the CCs). Perhaps CSU needs to decide which way to go in this respect in order to come up with a sensible policy here.

[notrichenough]

I don't know how the quoted prices correspond to OOS tuition prices, but many public universities start charging OOS tuition when you accumulate a certain number of credits.

For example, IIRC the threshold at DS's school is 18% in excess of the number of credits needed for most degrees. after that, you pay OOS rates. So for a 120-credit major, after 142 credits you pay a lot more.

Some schools have per-semester limits as well, although 17 seems pretty low.

[cobrat]

Cal State should also charge more for remediation classes. Obviously, few students would pay the fee, so they'd take the course at a juco instead. In any event, that too would reduce budgetary pressure on the CSU system.

Or they can eliminate remediation classes completely and deny admission until those classes are finished satisfactorily at a ccollege.

That's the approach the 4-year CUNY colleges have been taking for the last several years which has helped in attracting above-average or better students who back in my day would have avoided that system like the plague partially because of the heavy presence of remedial and underprepared students in classes.

Granted, this policy has proven to be controversial as it effectively ends "open admission" for NYC residents and according to critics...places greater obstacles in the path of minority NYC high school graduates from underserved areas and thus, greatly increasing the odds they'll never graduate with a 4-year BA/BS degree.

Some schools have per-semester limits as well, although 17 seems pretty low.

Depends on how colleges equate credits with courses. At my private LAC, 16 credits is already considered a heavy load and thus...one needs written permission from the academic dean to register beyond 16 and pay an extra fee unless they're a double-degree student in which case some exceptions may apply. At my LAC, 16 credits is the equivalent of 5 regular courses equated at 3 credits each plus 1 credit lab/recitation/exco type course.

On the other hand, at NYU in the same period('90s), 16 credits was a normal load and equivalent to 4 regular courses as full courses were computed at 4 credits each.

[fluteloop]

The 131-137 does not include the fact that I have to take other education classes to also get my degree.

[ucbalumnus]

Originally Posted by notrichenough

I don't know how the quoted prices correspond to OOS tuition prices,

CSU's out-of-state additional tuition is $372 per semester unit or $248 per quarter unit, according to 2012-13 Schedule of Systemwide Fees | Systemwide and Campus Mandatory Fees | Student Fees | Budget | CSU .

[notrichenough]

Students who have earned 160 semester or 240 quarter units (150 semester or 225 quarter units from fall 2014) will pay an extra fee of $372 to $399 per semester unit or $248 to $266 per quarter unit

CSU's out-of-state additional tuition is $372 per semester unit or $248 per quarter unit

Ok, so kids who go over the limit get charged OOS tuition rates.

As I said, this is not a new idea, or even particularly unusual.