Advising Daughter about Professor Issue

[HarvestMoon1]

I have a friend who is a "rules are rules" person to the extreme. Meaning she gets very angry when she observes someone in the supermarket express lane with one more item than allowed, or hears of an acquaintance with a charming personality that has talked their way out of a parking ticket. She can't seem to process that sometimes it doesn't play out the way she thinks it should, which is always "according to the rules".

My observation is that life often doesn't play by the rules. I think the value of rules is that they are road signs or benchmarks of how things might work better in an ideal world - something to aspire to in a sense. But in my experience, rules are not something you can count on being applied democratically 100% of the time - in fact, not even close.

[Hunt]

My observation is that life often doesn't play by the rules. I think the value of rules is that they are road signs or benchmarks of how things might work better in an ideal world - something to aspire to in a sense. But in my experience, rules are not something you can count on being applied democratically 100% of the time - in fact, not even close.

Your friend probably thinks that you're an anarchist.

[Amesie]

Second exam of finals period (first semester) her software would not load. IT attempted a fix, time ran out and she ended up having to take the exam ON PAPER. All essays. No "cut and paste." Same time limit as the rest. If I remember correctly, there were two other student also taking the test by hand: one also had software loading problems and the other had a broken hand.

Just curious what you think the alternative solution was in this instance?

H is an adjunct law instructor and at his school, students can choose to take final exams by computer or by hand. Students are warned that if they choose to use a computer to type their answers and something goes wrong, they should simply start writing their answers by hand. Really, what else can the school/professor do?

Also, usually the special software is necessary because it blocks students from cutting and pasting from documents on their computers during the exam.

[Hunt]

Just curious what you think the alternative solution was in this cae?

A modest amount of extra time might be fair--at least for the kid with the broken hand.

[Amesie]

I think one reason this discussion has gone on so long is that different people have a different reaction to this kind of question--it seems obvious to some of us that "rules are rules and deadlines are deadlines" and obvious to others that people should be flexible and "reasonable." And we all think that people on the other side of the divide should "learn" to be more like we are.

I agree, and I think it paralleles the classic tension between justice and mercy. In an academic setting, treating everyone the same--"the quiz must be submitted by 5 pm, no exceptions"--appeals to our sense of fairness and justice, but recognizing that some circumstances call for special treatment--"you were in the hospital that week, I won't count that grade agaisnt you"--can be merciful.

[Amesie]

Quote:



Just curious what you think the alternative solution was in this cae?

A modest amount of extra time might be fair--at least for the kid with the broken hand.

At H's school, this would likely cause a revolt, at least if the extra time were administered on an ad-hoc basis because of computer problems (the broken hand is a different story because that can be decided before the exam starts). Law school exams are graded on a curve, so exams are seen as a zero-sum game. And the exams are usually written to be impossible to finish in the allotted time--long essay questions with page after page of detailed fact patterns that students must analyze.

[Hunt]

At H's school, this would likely cause a revolt, at least if the extra time were administered on an ad-hoc basis because of computer problems (the broken hand is a different story because that can be decided before the exam starts). Law school exams are graded on a curve, so exams are seen as a zero-sum game. And the exams are usually written to be impossible to finish in the allotted time--long essay questions with page after page of detailed fact patterns that students must analyze.

But couldn't those students objecting to the extra time just be told that this is a learning experience for them--that they should realize that life isn't always fair?

[lookingforward]

HM and Hunt, my own observation is that, in life, very often rules DO matter- in the work wolrd, there isn't much flexibility for each person's personal style. You can't have an effective team and let each operate ad hoc. It's important to learn how to id the rules and play by them. After that, my feeling has always been, decide on your own, which rules to bend, Or buck. With your eyes open. Sometimes, you will win, may even be seen as visionary. Other times, you will lose.

This is one thing I did try to teach my girls- figure out the rules, weigh the consequences, then decide. Both still run themselves up against deadlines.

You can believe rules/expectations form a framework- and still allow for a little anarchy. But, it can't always fall back on the idea the "nice people" will be understanding. (Said as one who often had to clean up others' messes.)

[HarvestMoon1]

LF, i agree wholeheartedly that rules do matter and that is especially true in the workplace. The point I was trying to make is that often those rules are not enforced democratically. The two examples I used in my previous post are minuscule, compared to what one can observe when power or money come into play.

[vlines]

Funny, as a nurse, I find the exact opposite, lookingforward.

Would you want me to give you a medication that I knew would be harmful to you just because the rule says it is due at 12 on the medication sheet?

That may seem simplistic, but in a rule is a rule world, that is what would happen.

And there are times that same medication may be late because I was doing CPR on a patient next door.

We have to be creative to be successful as human beings. Too many rules squash creativity. We need to use common sense to be successful, and many times, that means going against rules.

[hoosiermom]

vlines, your example does not make sense. Nurses are to administer medications to the right patient, at the right time, as long as it is the right medication. A nurse could lose his/ her license if he/she administers a med knowing that it is harmful to the patient. That is malpractice.,

[EPTR]

{quote]We have to be creative to be successful as human beings. Too many rules squash creativity. We need to use common sense to be successful, and many times, that means going against rules.[/quote]

Yes!!! I have never really had a tolerance for "zero tolerance" policies.

An example: There was a rule in place at an elementary school that there was ZERO tolerance for any child who brings a weapon to school. Makes sense right? Until a 4th grader brought a butter knife to school because he couldn't find a plastic one at home and needed it for lunch. He was suspended.

[roshke]

If this were my kid I would still encourage her to see the professor in person, during her office hours, if at all possible. This person might very well be the type who feels that she doesn't need to accommodate anyone under these kind of circumstances who doesn't go the extra mile.

If your D is straightforward about the circumstances ( shows email from IT, copies of her syllabus and schedule from the other courses, provides info that she has a history of being a conscientious student) while making no excuses and expressing the fact that she takes ultimate responsibility regardless of outcome of the meeting, it's possible the professor might take it into account somehow in the end.

It's also possible that she's coming across as hardline right now in order to make her point, but will have more discretion than your D believes based on additionsl quizzes and final exam. Depending on how the conversation goes, she might also volunteer to do an extra paper or project.

[lookingforward]

vlines, that's a complex judgment call, dependent on your expertise and observations. You may delay the dose, to get a med opinion. That's not anarchy, that's responsibility. It begs a lot of other questions. And, you would not be allowed to skip the dose without addl steps.

"We have to be creative," but that's not acceptable in all situations, just because we like to be creative. (A nurse, eg, can't give, say, Advil, because she wants to try something else.) The fact that many rules (expecially in schools, yes,) "squash creativity," doesn't mean each person can go off reinventing the wheel.

[lookingforward]

I agree D should see the prof during office hours- but not to plead her case. More to be gained by going into recovery mode. I'd tell my kids, apologize for the situation, "I did feel there was enough time and that I was prepared." Then move to an intelligent question or comment about the course material. I do feel profs respond well to kids who show they are engaged with the material, thinking about it.