One of the worst K-12 education systems in the world

[barrons]

Making change is a function best-suited to the computer Better to have cashier concentrate on making customer feel appreciated. Human banter.

[xiggi]

Making change is a function best-suited to the computer Better to have cashier concentrate on making customer feel appreciated. Human banter.

True, but also quite irrelevant to the example that is about the inability to do basic math. And, fwiw, there are plenty of similar ones, such as the inability to convert or understand a metric system. The inability to read blueprints in construction.

Barrons, since you are a member of the older generation, I am sure you have witnessed the erosion of the basic and thinking skills of "my" generation who is lost without a smartphone or other device attached to our hand. Remember we cannot find our way to anything without turn by turn directions and a GPS!

[OHMomof2]

@Bay, obviously I think it would be ideal if every school district had what the good ones have.

As it is education quality is very uneven...sometimes due to socioeconomic factors (some schools have great facilities and laptops for all, some school do without adequate heat and old books), sometimes due to differences in curricular priorities (I'm thinking of areas that have decided not to teach evolution, for example).

[emeraldkity4]

As it is education quality is very uneven...sometimes due to socioeconomic factors (some schools have great (I'm thinking of areas that have decided not to teach evolution, for example).

Yeah, like that's a good idea.

But would a national curriculum be better?
Our state turned down federal monies in years past, because we wanted to have accurate sex ED in schools, not to teach students that " just say no" is the only game in town.

[Bay]

Our schools will never have uniform resources or curricula unless we nationalize education. We'd have to decide that was a good thing, first...

I'd rather spend our energy focussing on improving teacher quality.

[starbright]

For those coming up with defensive arguments as to why PISA doesn't make the US educational system look good, I have just one suggestion: Compare the US top 95th percentile to other countries.

If these counter arguments- such as immigrants are to blame- were valid, you would see the top US students outperforming most other countries. They are not.

[xiggi]

Oh, Starbright, do not take away our last little bit of self-esteem. Let us cling to the notion that our elite is still better than the world's elite. After all isn't that what that IB is supposed to deliver?

[AtlasHugged]

A University of Chicago professor did a study that notes how immigrants in the US do far better than their counterparts in origin countries including, I believe, Japan and Finland (don't quote me on that specifically, but that's the spirit of his argument).

I think there is a lot that can and should be done to make our education system much better than it is. I do think, however, that American education is among the better in the world.

For those coming up with defensive arguments as to why PISA doesn't make the US educational system look good, I have just one suggestion: Compare the US top 95th percentile to other countries.

I think you hit the nail on the head – that is the problem in this country. If you are only at the 95th percentile, you are still closer to the vast middle class in this country than the actual "top" insofar as access to education, or anything else, is concerned.

The most appalling statistic I remember reading is the correlation between SAT scores and income. Obviously richer kids do better, but I thought that it ought to plateau off at 100,000 a year... 150,000 a year. No, it rises steadily even through the "250,000+" bracket. I wouldn't be surprised if that top bracket was broken down to see the plateauing only start somewhere at 350,000 a year or more.

The elite in America is not its top 5%, sadly, but it's top 2 (give or take a bit).

[xiggi]

The most appalling statistic I remember reading is the correlation between SAT scores and income. Obviously richer kids do better, but I thought that it ought to plateau off at 100,000 a year... 150,000 a year. No, it rises steadily even through the "250,000+" bracket. I wouldn't be surprised if that top bracket was broken down to see the plateauing only start somewhere at 350,000 a year or more.

The source of those statistics is none other than the self-reported income by STUDENTS on the SAT surveys. It is the same source that tells us that around 90 percent (or something close) have an A average in school.

While there is little doubt that the wealth (as a proxy for higher education) of the parents should correlate to the higher academic achievement of their children, those numbers have to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

[AtlasHugged]

The source of those statistics is none other than the self-reported income by STUDENTS on the SAT surveys. It is the same source that tells us that around 90 percent (or something close) have an A average in school.

While there is little doubt that the wealth (as a proxy for higher education) of the parents should correlate to the higher academic achievement of their children, those numbers have to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Alright, point taken, but the phenomenon has been confirmed (though not to the same extent) by studies of SAT scores by school and socioeconomic status of those students in the aggregate which will not be nearly as statistically flawed as the the SAT report. Even then, I wonder whether there really is a big selection bias on the report... You could at least say with a fair amount of confidence that people who think that they are rich do better than those that think they are poor, right?

My point is that the disparity in this country has reached a level that even the "top 5%" doesn't seem to mean much. On the other hand I do think that the system is a lot better than people give it credit for, specifically for emigre.

[xiggi]

Fwiw, one might think that your position on the correlation of SAT scores with wealth and the "elite" disparity is ... a further indictment of the public system of education of the United States.

Isn't the public system of education supposed the biggest equalizer, and isn't the system supposed to educate everyone?

In so many words, this is why some believe --including me-- that our system of education is such a wasteful testament to mediocrity. In 1983, some sounded the alarm in the form of A Nation At Risk. Almost thirty years, we only have made a turn for the worse.

[Catria]

Too test-focused? Yes. But the worst? Not sold on this just yet.

[AtlasHugged]

Fwiw, one might think that your position on the correlation of SAT scores with wealth and the "elite" disparity is ... a further indictment of the public system of education of the United States.

Yes and no. In an absolute sense, I am very inclined to agree with you. Relatively, though, emigre do far better in the US than they do in origin countries. Even the "smart" immigrants from Asia (especially India... though I think that's a quite unfair comparison because Indians in the US are better off than Indians in India to a much greater extent than any other population).

The playing field might not be level when you compare rich Americans and poor Americans, but I think there's merit in the argument that Hispano-Americans do better than Hispanics in general, that sino-Americans do better than Chinese, and if I recall correctly even the Japanese and Finnish do better than their brothers and sisters at home!

[barrons]

X-I used to be able to do lots more math in my head too--but then along came the HP 12C and that just faded. Now I agree younger kids never learned that little skill but did they really need to? I can allow them slack on that. My brain is full of 50 years of songs and maps of most major US cities. Never used a GPS yet but pretty good with a map if needed.

[lookingforward]

Know the Monty Python Spam song? Sometimes I just replace "Spam" wth STEM, STEM, STEM, STEM.

Our school systems have taken on far more responsibilities than when I was a kid. And, somewhere between our eager focus on test scores, desire to push as many kids toward STEM as we can, and "no child left behind," we've created what I sometimes feel is mass confusion. Add to that, our inability to properly and consistently fund education.