One of the worst K-12 education systems in the world

[sorghum]

It seems odd to me that one of the top educators in the world (isn't that what a Princeton president is?) would make a public statement about the US educational system that is not true. How do you all rationalize that?

I rationalize it by thinking hey maybe she is right.

[lookingforward]

I don't know if we're even on track yet- what are we trying to educate our hs and ms kids to? Perform better on higher level math tests or arrive at a higher level of skills needed in their lives- to function effectively, be better parents, neighbors, and informed/engaged citizens?

By looking at test scores, number of hs or college grads and incomes achieved, we miss something. Even by speaking of some of the 40% becoming professionals, we are devaluing many of the ordinary roles that make things work. Again, it suggests a "certain level of achievement" is the right standard for all. That anyone not swept up to that potential can't be of the same value- to society or to us.

We also had vocational tracks, back in the day.

Personally, I hate the notion that high SES is some sort of grease. Again, that's looking at scores, college grad rates or professions. Not only do I see many low SES kids who knock themselves out, but I know many high SES kids from my kids' hs, who are very average. Outperformed daily by motivated kids. We need to look around us, check the standards we are using to evaluate.

mythmom- what gets me is: raise their IQs- or raise their scores on the IQ tests, as developed?

[Bay]

Can the gratuitous political comment in # 45 please be removed as well? Thank you.

[xiggi]

It seems odd to me that one of the top educators in the world (isn't that what a Princeton president is?) would make a public statement about the US educational system that is not true. How do you all rationalize that?

One way to rationalize the statement is to consider it incomplete and designed to grab attention to a problem that is talked about but mostly ignored.

Calling the US education system one of the worst of the world is obviously improper considering the vastness of the world. It becomes truer when placing the United States in its context of world leader and a member of the industrialized world. We are not comparing the US with Vanuatu or Togo when analyzing the PERFORMANCE of the United States, and controlling for its resources and spending level.

For what the United States invests in education, one is forced to conclude that it gets what should be expected from public services in general. A bloated system with horrible waste that is mostly preoccupied with the well-being of the insiders and service providrs than with the beneficiaries of the service.

In that context, the United States might very well be one of the worst PERFORMERS in the world. A performance that is only mitigated by the involvement of parents at an early age and the use of outside "forces" in later years.

[xiggi]

There is another non-PC reason that "privileged" kids outperform the "underprivileged". They are smarter and more studious on average. The undergraduate and graduate degrees possessed by doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, college professors, and other high-status parents signify above-average intelligence, which is usually passed on to their children. Even if the children of janitors and doctors go to equally good schools, the doctors' kids will compile better academic records on average because they are smarter.

Humm, I am afraid that you are endorsing theories that could be debunked easily. Theories that confuse intelligence or smarts with the result of opportunities and support.

Since I have no interest in feeding the prior debate about this issue any further, I will leave it at that I cannot agree, and not because of PC concerns, but because of plenty of real life examples.

[xiggi]

Yawn......when the rest of the world starts educating all of it's children, from the severely mentally handicapped on up from age 5-18 in the pre-undergrad system and counts those kids into their statistical data and the US falls outside of the top 10% or so, I will worry then. For now, the US system is unique to the world because of the above.

With all due respect, the above is cut from the same cloth as the usual set of ... excuses pushed by the NEA zealots. Where is the evidence that the samples of students in the United States are different and that the "others" get to exclude the undesirable? Where is the evidence that the US samples do include severally mentally handicapped children in the PISA test? Seriously!

The uniqueness of the United States is also one of the loudest quacking canards. Every country is unique. We just love to think our uniqueness is somewhat superior. And clearly superior in our ability to apologize and try to excuse our poor performance.

[SteveMA]

Beliavsky--yes, on average dr's kids do better in college then janitor's kids, however you have to look at the root of the issue, not the outcome. It isn't what a parent does for a living that makes the difference, it's the emphasis put on getting a good education in the home that makes all the difference in the world. Yes, there are outliers to everything but I know plenty of dr's kids that are worthless students because their parents were just too busy at work and as the spouse of a janitor's kid who is now a highly successful CEO along with his highly successful siblings, we beg to differ with your generalization . Even kids brought up in the poorest of poor families where the parent(s) care that they better themselves will excel in school but when Mom doesn't come home for days on end and you may or may not get to eat that day, that is a lot to overcome and typically those kids just can't function up to potential. Add in that in many cultures its just not cool to be smart and you have very little chance of getting those kids educated even with the best schools/teachers in the world.

[NJSue]

It seems odd to me that one of the top educators in the world (isn't that what a Princeton president is?) would make a public statement about the US educational system that is not true.

I've never really thought of university presidents as "educators." Their primary purpose is fundraising and PR. Their job is to raise the profile and resources of their institution. With all due respect to Shirley Tilghman, the history and structure of public education in the US is an area that is way outside of her academic expertise, which is in biology. She might have restricted her comments to science education; but even then, I wonder how much someone with her career background would really know about science education k-12. Most academics are pretty ignorant about curricula and methods used by K-12 teachers. They are pretty certain, however, that those methods are bad. It's an article of faith which reinforces the superiority complex of professors.

[LoremIpsum]

We see the foreign exchange students come in and really struggle because they just don't have the background education our kids do

I hosted 3 German foreign exchange high schoolers and all of them found the classes here easier, in spite of limited fluency in English when they arrived.

It isn't what a parent does for a living that makes the difference, it's the emphasis put on getting a good education in the home that makes all the difference in the world.

Sure. Using the Internet to research or double-check facts, rather than just to watch YouTube videos of Lady Gaga and stupid pet tricks. Watching PBS and Discovery Channel instead of so-called "reality shows" or American Idol. Young kids do tend to follow their parents' lead, not in what they say but in what they do themselves.

[mythmom]

It wasn't a gratuitous comment or a political statement. It was a factual representation of a position taken on education, the subject of this thread.

[ExhaustedDad]

The scores say it all.

[ExhaustedDad]

I should add.......here in California the top 33% of HS students supposedly are qualified to get into the Cal State University System. Last year 50% of those students had to take a remedial English course upon entry into the system. Now I know all you politically correct folks are going to say it's because English is the second language for many of these attendees. If so, then tell my why 40% have to take remedial math?

Again, as noted above, the scores don't lie.

[bird rock]

It wasn't a gratuitous comment or a political statement.

In what way is: "The Texas Republican Party had a plank against critical thinking in schools because it encourages children to question authority" not a gratuitous political statement?

Whether you think it's true or not anyone who can read can sniff that it's both political and gratuitous. If you're having trouble seeing that I'll give you a hint: look for the words Texas Republican Party.

[OHMomof2]

We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.

I think it's relevant and on-topic.

[ExhaustedDad]

I don't think, I know it's political correctness. As almost anyone with a modicum of intelligence knows, the universities are bastions of liberalism foisting tolerance, diversity, "critical thinking", and other psycho babble upon unsuspecting students.