% Immigrant Blacks in US Colleges

[Drosselmeier]

“I still do not get the point of any of this. It all amounts to nothing but utterly idle rethoric.”

Not to me. I have for years been convinced of many of the same things that are being said here, so convinced I decided to do something about it to save my own kids. But I didn’t have a firm way to argue my beliefs. I am almost shaking over here reading some of NSM’s posts because they are confirming what I have always felt deep down but could not ever really support.

[emeraldkity4]

I wish we could get more AA families involved in the schools
we have a ton of white and other minority families involved- but AA families is much more difficult.
The last school I was involved with, recruited an AA parent to be on the board, even though she hadn't attended PTA meetings previously, nor after the one meeting which elected her as cochair.
A lot of habits seem pretty hard to break.
My daughters high school, has three floors and the surrounding community is fond of saying it is segregated by floors.
But I am in the school almost everyday- and I don't see that.
It may have been in the past, but there are kids in all levels of classes, if you want to try, you can. My daughter who was in special education just a couple years ago, is taking an advanced placement class as a sophomore. Her sports team which has a majority of AA atheletes has an average GPA of 3.5
Yet their previous principal allowed students to hand in work on the sly, because it was not "cool" to complete an assignment.
That is ridiculous

[Zuma]

NSM, it would be helpful to hear some suggestions as to what exactly you would like a place like Harvard to do in response to the issues you've raised? It would help to be specific.

[dabost]

I empathize with those African-American parents who feel the system have not benefitted their children. I must say, though, that as parent to two black children, that has not been my experience. Though they have attended suburban white schools, they have always excelled, and in fact, perform at a very high level. They are accepted by both thier black as well as white peers. In our household, we have always emphasized reading, minimized exposure to TV and homework always came first. That approach has paid off, as they are both excelling now and have good study habits. Sure, discrimination exists, and probably always will. But if we equip our children to compete, that should go a long ways toward opening up the door to opportunity and overcoming discrimination.

[Northstarmom]

"Maybe we ought to ascertain why immigrants come to the United States with suitcases filled with hope of a better life while the minorities who have lived here for generations seem to have lost hope eons ago."

The majority of African immigrants have come to the US during the 1990s. The America that they know lacks the blatant discrimination that was the heritage the African Americans whose recent ancestors were US-born.

Consequently, the African immigrants and their children can believe in the US as the promised land.

In addition, the African immigrants have on the whole a much higher level of education than do American-born blacks (and for that matter, white Americans and Asian immigrants!). This allows them to get professional opportunities, housing opportunities and educational opportunities for their children that are not available to a large proportion of American-born blacks.

It's important to keep in mind that only healthy, well off or well connected, aggressive and ambitious people are in general emigrating here from Africa. Those Africans are the cream of the crop of Africa, which is the poorest continent.

For instance, the bulk of African immigrants in the US are from Nigeria. A large proportion of them are college educated and even have doctorates. Meanwhile, the US State Department says that Nigeria, the most populous African country, secondary school attendance is only male 32%, female 27%. The literacy rate is: 39%-51%.

I also have read that Nigerian universities have spaces for only 20% of the students who are eligible to go to college. One can only imagine the level of intelligence and aggression that is needed for students to get accepted into college there.

To compare the African immigrants' perspectives about the US and its opportunities to the perspectives of average African American in this country would be like comparing the perspectives of doctors in Beverly Hills to residents of South Bronx.

[emeraldkity4]

In general that may be true, but in working with the reading tutor program, I have been working with children from poorer countries inclduing Sudanese refugees.
But just as earlier european immigrants were pretty motivated to come to america by poverty, hunger, war and the promise of a better place, the african immigrants are pretty motivated as well.
These kids are pretty amazing to work with, obviously great trauma to come here, but determined. Very determined.

[TutuTaxi]

Originally Posted by xiggi

Maybe we ought to ascertain why immigrants come to the United States with suitcases filled with hope of a better life while the minorities who have lived here for generations seem to have lost hope eons ago.

Precisely!!

[LakeWashington]

I suspect that Theodore Cross was motivated by the same temperament as Herbert Apktheker and other white scholars of the Black Experience; an impassionate, objective but deliberate desire to discover the truth.

[Northstarmom]

dabost,
By any chance do you have girls?
Virtually everyone I know who is African American, nonimmigrant, and has sons who are not biracial, has had some major difficulty with their sons' academics. African American girls, though, are doing comparatively well, and often are near the top of their class even in demanding schools.

The youths whom I am referring to have parents who have masters and doctorates, who are college professors or other professionals, are avid readers, and volunteered and did other things to support their kids' education. Many of these parents also were involved in doing volunteer work to support the education of kids in general.

The boys in general underperformed greatly in high school (but tended to be regarded by teachers and administrators as successes since they were not held back, and also were rare black males taking AP and similar courses), dropped out of college or refused to go to college despite having parents willing to fund their education, and having colleges delighted to accept them (even sometimes offering lavish merit aid).

To demonstrate the severity of the problem, here are some stats from 2005 research by the Harvard Civil Rights Project. These stats refer to high school graduation rates.

"In this report, we give special attention to five southern states -- Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and North Carolina. These states report graduation rates in 2002 ranging from a high of 85% in North Carolina to a low of 61.8% in Georgia....

In keeping with the national trend, graduation rates for Black and Latino students in these five states are substantially lower still. In Georgia, which has a substantial and growing Latino population, the rates for Blacks, Latinos and Native Americans were all below 50%.


"Black, Native American and Latino males fared worst of all. Across the Southern region, the graduation rate for Black males averages only 47.4%, and 50.9% for Latinos. In only one of the five special focus states—Louisiana—did more than half (51.1%) of Black males graduate on time. In Florida, Black males had the lowest graduation rate out of the five states, a mere 38.3%. Of the two states where data on Native Americans males is available, North Carolina had a graduation rate of just 31.7%. "

http://www.civilrightsproject.harvar...ts_south05.php

[xiggi]

"Not to me. I have for years been convinced of many of the same things that are being said here, so convinced I decided to do something about it to save my own kids."

Saving of ... what? Saving from the fact that we should know the geographical distribution and origin of blacks in higher education? Did Lani Guinier cared to research the distribution of Asians or Hispanics? Did she compare the various ethnic groups?

I called this discussion idle rethoric because I have yet to see any articulation of WHY this is a problem, and obviously no proposals or solutions that address the real issues.

[xiggi]

NSM, I appreciate the lengthy post that list a number of differences between immigrants and local. Nobody disputes such facts.

Again, the issue is not that differences exist but IF such differences create a problem. What is the problem?

[dabost]

Northstarmom, yes, I do have girls. That may explain why they have been so successful. I fully understand that with boys, the situation can be totally different. I think with boys, for some reason there is more peer pressure, and excelling academically may not highly regarded among their peers. I'm not sure what the solution to this is, but certainly it should be solved well before the college level. The problem needs to be addressed in the elementary and secondary schools. I know in my suburban area, the school system is taking a hard look at this problem... I would love to see more AA boys in the advanced level high school classes.

[emeraldkity4]

So much comes down to parents.
In the mixed households, not so much anger, about the "priviledged" whites, more involvement in the school, translates to better performance at school, and more teacher involvement.
But some households, very angry, often ranting about "racist whites" in laid back Seattle. The parents will come to community meetings to complain, but not to school meetings to solve.
The kids hear them ***** at home,take those goggles when they come to school. even though we have many programs to specifically help AA students succeed, those are perceived as "elitist".
I see teachers staying after school everyday, to help whomever needs help. advanced classes are avaliable to whomever wants to do the work.
I didn't graduate from high school,I didn't attend a 4 year college, but why is it that I see education as a way out for my kids, but a black child, whose parents have a college degree doesn't?
I don't understand all the ramifications of being black- and I don't expect to get a knighthood for my volunteer work,but unless there is a real effort from all parts of a community, we are not going to move forward

[Drosselmeier]

“Yet their previous principal allowed students to hand in work on the sly, because it was not "cool" to complete an assignment. That is ridiculous.”

Indeed it is, and I think the cause of it is very complex. Go ahead and search the web for “IQ and blacks” and soon you will see some of the most crushing stuff possible. Now black families have been subjected to this kind of thing for as long as they can remember, and it is going on right now, not a hundred years ago, but right now. This, combined with slavery and Jim Crow, has convinced many blacks that there is just no way they can ever realistically join the American Dream.

I am about as solid an American as you can get. I work hard (too hard), nurture my kids, am completely faithful to my wife, in fact I have never known any other woman. I pay my bills, my taxes, and I go to church. I don’t think I have said a single curse word in over twenty years. I have never smoked, never even held a cigarette in all of my life. Never had any run-in with the law – not even a speeding ticket. I certainly have never done drugs. But, hey, I know that however honorable I become, there are still people all over my own country, right in my own town, who want me dead or at least kicked out of my country just because I am black.

I know these people have been around since the founding of the country. I know many of them fought for the Southern Confederacy, the leaders of which supported sentiments like this: “The new [southern] constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution—African slavery as it exists amongst us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution [the civil war].” http://teachingamericanhistory.org/l...cumentprint=76. I also know people even today honor this Confederacy, and that they want me, a black guy, to actually pay taxes to support the public display of symbols that represented it. My own daughter took her last SAT in a school named after a confederate scoundrel. I know my own relatives were brutally discriminated against and have told me never to trust whites because of it. So, you know, I feel I don’t stand a chance of just relaxing and being an American (no-hyphens) because I know hateful folks are all over the place http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp.

Now tons of other blacks and their kids know this too, and when they look around and see nothing but pain, suffering and fear, they know it even more. They know it firsthand and also because their parents have told them the same thing. Unlike immigrant blacks, their entire culture is profoundly defined by this. I suspect the pain is still so great, that many of us aren’t able to see the reality of American opportunity and the potential for genuine American acceptance. I know I can’t see it.

Still, I am just assuming it exists because I have heard of and even seen some blacks succeeding in our country and making a difference. I never really liked George Bush, but, I gotta be honest—seeing him depend on folks like Condi Rice has helped me quite a lot. I think it I too late for me. There is just no way I can ever feel like a genuine American. But Rice suggests to me that maybe my kids could feel American. I am taking a big risk because if I am wrong, then I have made my kids vulnerable to a country that is prone to condemn them for something beyond their control.

I think many black parents, rather than taking this sort of risk with their children, have done the “reasonable” thing and simply allowed their children to become as wounded as they are. The message to these kids is quite clear: “Whites have called you 3/5ths of a human and you now want to be like them??? That is just crazy! Do black stuff instead, sound black, name yourselves differently, walk differently, don’t do the white man’s schoolwork and don’t learn HISstory. Don’t play the white man’s game at all because they will never be fair. They can’t be. It is not part of their genetics. They will cheat and lie even if it seems like they will not. It has always been like this and always will be. Shoot, for centuries, right up until just a few decades ago, these people owned you like you were animals and even called you that. Most of these people’s kids now whine today, just because for a paltry 40 years the government has tried to do something about it. They can never be fair – ever.”

I am more than willing to consider that it is all a bunch of poison. But when I venture beyond the loving sanctuary of my home (bowing reverently to my beautiful wife), I still feel the past pressing bitterly against me. To get out of it will take more than electing a disinterested black as co-chair of the PTA. It will take a lot of time and increasing numbers of blacks who are willing to risk encouraging their children to chase their dreams.

[Drosselmeier]

“I called this discussion idle rethoric because I have yet to see any articulation of WHY this is a problem, and obviously no proposals or solutions that address the real issues.”

I think we see the “whys” being discussed here quite well. NSM has been very clear that slavery and racism has caused many American blacks to develop negative attitudes about education and that also the educational system has certain built-in attitudes that discourage black performance. And in fact I have known this – since I was a boy.

It is hard to discuss solutions at this point when we are still in disagreement with the causes. But, I think I have a solution (at least for my family), though unfortunately I don’t think it is necessarily applicable to blacks in general.