What I've learned about full-ride scholarships

[hobofromdowntown]

a little off topic but could anyone clear up the tiering of schools? like what schools on the US News ranking consists of tier 1, tier 2 etc..?

Like would tier 1 be the top 25 schools?

[HImom]

Yeah, or we could be failures wherever we went & in our later professional lives. There are folks who went to ivies & top tiers who are NOT happy with their lives & have tons of debt too. Who knows what would have happened to them if they went elsewhere? How fruitful is this type of speculation? Having options & letting folks make informed decisions sounds like a good plan to me. Thanks TexasMom for helping with this discussion & thread.

[overseas]

Or vice versa. It works both ways! College is more than classes. It is friends, and serendipitous experiences that lead you on your path.

[curmudgeon]

hobo, "tier one" usually refers to USNWR rankings within a USNWR category. It goes by 50 per tier. Tier 3 then would be those schools ranked from 100-150 (although USNWR fudges and selects more than 50 schools for its second tier).

[HImom]

The other thing to keep in mind is that even within universities, there can be exceptional departments or schools. For example, the University of Hawaii has one of the best International Relations & International Business Schools in the world, from what I've heard from a former dean. It also has an exceptional marine biology department & astronomy department. University of Arizona says they have an exceptional astronomy & physics department.

Part of the equation is also "name recognition" of the particular schools in the area of the country where you plan to get a job & live. In HI as I suspect a lot of other places, part of name recognition happens to be how well the football team does & whether it competes in the conference HI does or at least a well known, high profile conference.

Personally, I think the great football team & buying a lot of NMF & bright students thru generous merit aid has caused USC's rep to really rise recently. I've heard others mention this as well.

[momfromtexas]

Wow, I kind of suspected that this might be a controversial thread. I will add a bit more now.

The higher stats that the student has, the more possibilities that open up. But of course the higher up the rankings one moves, the more competetive the scholarship becomes. At the lower levels some are automatic with certain stats. At the higher levels one is competing with hundreds and hundreds of applicants for a handful of awards at most. Most of our searching was in Texas, the south, the southwest and the lower midwest. States with lower PSAT cutoffs and with declining as opposed to increasing students at the age to enter higher education generally provide the best opportunities.

Because of a semi-complicated family situation, I decided to take this search for merit-based funding for higher education as a challenge. It has not been easy to figure all this out. But I think I have learned a lot about how to do it. One poster asked about GPA's. Most scholarships mention a GPA of 3.75 or top 10% though some are higher and some are lower. I have not seen a distinction between weighted and non-weighted however.

By the way, Curmudgeon has some different criteria than I do and has a student with higher stats, but he has learned many of the same things that I have about how to play the merit scholarship game. He has obviously spent many hours researching information to learn what he is now able to apply. He has also been very generous in sharing this knowledge.

Any more questions about the method as opposed to the rational?

[ryan2288]

My parents are very well off and they dont want to pay for my out of state tuition. There are a lot of parents that are skeptical about an undergrad degree that costs 200K. However, I agree with the consensus that anything below tier 2 for a kid with a 1410 is a shame.

[curmudgeon]

consensus

say what???

[calmom]

momfromtexas - thanks for starting this thread. I feel the unwarranted attack on your choice is outrageous -- apparently it stems from people who are so set on rationalizing their willingness to pay $50K annually for a college label that they feel compelled to disparage anyone who doesn't readily jump on the bankruptcy-bound bandwagon. Although I have not followed your path, I found it interesting to read how you did the research and think it can help many students whose families are not willing or able to finance their educations.

[edit: flame removed - JEM] I think of the many students who have posted on this board that they cannot get their parents' cooperation in filling out forms -- or who are foreclosed from getting financial aid because of noncustodial parents or step-parents who are unwilling to fund college. I am also very aware that the vast majority of colleges do not guarantee to meet 100% of need, so good students who are not in the running for elite colleges really do need to be aware of merit opportunities. You are offering a path that may be the only way kids from these situations will realistically be able to attend college.

I attended a top law school 30 years ago, but when I went out to practice law I quickly learned that in the courtroom, it made no difference whether a lawyer had gone to an elite college or was a graduate of the local night school -- in fact, often the graduates of the less prestigious schools were better litigators, perhaps because they had more street smarts or were more likely to have been taught by practicing lawyers than ivory tower professors.

My son attended 2 years at top tier elite liberal arts college, but very likely will finish his education at the local CSU -- with added maturity and work experience, he simply wants to finish his degree in the most economical way possible.

"Challenge" is what we do or find on our own, and many of us look beyond the classroom. I certainly spent more time in college and in law school involved in outside activities, jobs & internships than in class. I suppose when one is very young and inexperienced it seems like the ideal path to an education is through some college geared to "the best and the brightest"... but sometimes the very best and very brightest individuals are also very capable of forging their own paths.

I know so many successful adults whose careers are launched on credentials that are essentially self-taught or obtained through the type of courses that any one can enroll in -- such as real estate licenses or insurance brokers. These are smart and capable people -- some have undergraduate degrees and some don't -- but as far as "education" they really didn't need to be spoon-fed, but were capable of seeking out and acquiring the knowledge they needed on their own. A college degree always has value -- but for many people it really matters very little where the degree is from.

I honestly don't see how anyone can think it "intelligent" to undermine their financial security in order to obtain a degree when the same degree can be obtained at a less prestigious institution at a cost they are comfortable with and can afford. Obviously families that are well-off financially and have planned and saved for college are not facing that dilemma -- but those who attack your choices obviously also have a very limited ability to conceptualize situations different than their own.

[KateLewis]

MomfromTexas -

I've read this thread with an increasing sense of outrage that thread trolls keep feeling the need to challenge your family's choices. Me? I can imagine an infinite number of situations that would drive your strategy, and I applaud the effort you've invested to ensure your kids graduate debt free.

Thanks for offering to share that information with the rest of us.

[musicmom]

MomfromTexas-
I thank you for sharing your extensive research.
Can't understand some posters' bashing of the approach you presented.
I've always found CC to be a place that folks could share DIVERSE opinions in an adult, constructive manner. Sorry that you experienced a bit of different response to your thoughtful, useful post.

I didn't get any sense from your OP that you were FORCING us all to employ a method that happened to work well for your family. I think for families just starting the process, it provides invaluable help.

It also provides a balance. Some families can or choose to fund whatever expense for their child's education, no matter the cost. For us, that is not possible. Our son is a college sophomore. We gladly pay the EFC (and a bit more), he takes Stafford loans. It's a joint adventure. We live frugally in a high cost state and need to provide for another (disabled) child and perhaps a modest retirement someday.
To mortgage a family's entire life to provide for the education of one child is scary to me. For some families, it's their priority.
I'm glad you posted!!!

[orchestramom]

MomfromTexas, Thank you!
We're just beginning this process (D is soph) and information and suggestions from ALL perspectives are welcomed with an open mind.

CalMom--well said! (post #39)

[lderochi]

Ditto Kate -- I just came to this thread and cannot believe how much crap the OP got simply for wanting to share her family's experience and make helpful suggestions to those who (for WHATEVER reason -- it's none of my damn business) consider significant merit aid an important criteria. Can't be challenged at a fourth tier school -- give me a break.

[lefthandofdog]

Another 'thank you' to Momfromtexas for pointing out yet another avenue kids/families can take when looking for a school.

I don't understand the criticisms/attacks. Look at the qualifications of the faculty at any college in this country and you'll find highly qualified teachers. The pool of students may differ, but that can be an opportunity for a student to really shine and get a leg up on the next phase of their education. It's a viable choice for many students.

[dt123]

This is the classic dilemma, full-pay at a higher ranked school vs. free ride at a lower ranked school.

At the first, in each classroom your kid is one of the least smart in the room, at the latter, one of the most smart. So the trade off is the rank of the school versus the rank of your kid within the school. Is it better to be below average at higher ranked school, or above average at a lower ranked school? (Only at Lake Woebegone U. are all kids above average.)

Let's say your kid is taking Physics. At Higher Ranked U., your kid is mixed in with future Nobel Prize winners in a class taught by last year's Nobel Prize winner, and struggling. At Lower Ranked U., your kid is the leader of his lab group, does all the extra credit work assigned, and is one of the prof's favorites who stays after class to continue the discussion. Where does your kid have increased opportunity? Will your kid learn more at either, or will he just learn as much as he can which is the same at either school?

More to the issue at hand, are the answers to those questions so indisputably clear that one should pay up to $40,000 a year more to be lower individually-ranked at the higher ranked school? We are talking about plunking down the cost of a brand new luxury SUV every year, for four to five years, for each kid in the family.

Compelling arguments can be made for both cases. However, since one route is expensive and other free, the burden of persuasion is on the higher ranked school proponents.