What I've learned about full-ride scholarships

[bookmom]

Mom from Texas did us all a favor by reminding us there are many routes to the sheepskin and each student/family must find the way that works for them. My children are 'gifted' and we have prepaid at least 3 yrs of their state college tuition/fees, but if they want a private college education, they will need to earn higher test scores, apply for and win more scholarships or take loans in their own names, take more summer courses locally or work more summer hours, to help gap the difference in cost. I keep reminding them that they also need to consider the costs of their graduate school when we jointly make the decision where they will attend UG school. Mom and dad (we're divorced) are in our 50s and 60s, each with serious health issues and one of us is already drawing a pension and one looking at taking disability; while we can probably meet EFC, we cannot take out loans or borrow against our retirement at this stage. We felt a prepaid education to a top 10 state flagship, with no debt at graduation, is an adequate fulfillment of our obligation to our children. Anything else (the cost of a private OOS college) would be icing and will be provided if economically feasible. I hope my children can attend the (private) colleges of their choice, but I will not lose sleep if they attend their financial safety, the U of ILL.

MomMusic--you might well be describing my alma mater ( U of Cinti), a leader in all the fields you mentioned, as well as good schools of nursing, pharmacy and medicine. I attended as my school's valedictorian (out of 315 students). I thought I was pretty hot till my frosh honors English class, where 11 of the 13 students were valedictorians and the other 2 were salutatorians! Didn't seem very 3rd tier to me!! This school may now be rated overall by USNWR as a 3rd tier school but I had to work for my grades in and out of the honors program and had a couple terms where I didn't make the dean's list. However, I got grad degrees from Case Western Reserve and the U of I, and had a full ride with living stipend from Case, so I don't feel I lost out on anything important by not attending Smith

A good 'name' school may give one a leg up on the first job or even a grad school, but after that it is primarily the student and his/her efforts and abilities, goals, and ethics/personaility, not the UG college name or rank, that determine how that student succeeds in life as well as in career. Also, if one plans to remain in the geographic area served by a regionally ranked school (esp, say, to practice law or accounting in the state where one's state law or business school is located), that school's name and the networking that is possible may be or more importance than the 'name' weight of a national school.

We do often get what we pay for in life, but a college and the value of the education it provides cannot always be judged totally by its cost or its name. And I am glad some parents on CC recognize and value this as so often after reading postings, I feel that I might be cheating my DDsand dooming them to some imagined mediocre future if I don't send them to $40K colleges in the USNW top tier.

I am somewhat following the OP's method by recommending some 3rd tier and regional schools to jr D#1, schools where she exceeds the 75th percentile in scores, that offer honors programs and scholarships that would still require her to stay on her toes, that have interesting and affordable study abroad opportunities, where she would be a bigger fish in a smaller pond. These additional safeties will widen her choices, not narrow them and I think this is a well-rounded approach.

[momfromtexas]

Thanks to all for the interesting responses. Yeah for choice, diversity, and alternate means. I told Son #2 about the number of views and responses I had received, and he was very impressed with his technically challenged mom.

At this point in the awards process, my son will most likely choose a 3rd tier school and he still hasn't received the awards decisions from his merit scholarship reaches yet. I will post the outcome.

[JeepMOM]

MOMFROMTEXAS it certainly sounds like you and your sons have done a wonderful job of achieving a fantastic balance for their future. It does take a whole family to make that happen - and guys that are willing to follow a different route as well.

Good Job - and let us know how all of this goes.

[HImom]

I agree momfromtexas & her family have achieved a great deal & I'm sure put in a LOT of research. It just goes to show that a child doesn't need to be a NMF in order to get an offer for a full-ride, nor an athletic standout. Would love to hear more about your research, especially about your 1st child, as my younger child is likely not to get the 2230 SAT & NMF her brother achieved.

Would love to hear anyone else's constructive thoughts & research as well. I love seeing kids get merit aid so that they have more resources for grad school, housing, and other things--substantial merit aid would really help us have more options.

We let son choose the schools he wanted to apply to but will spend more time & energy guiding younger sister's search because a fit would be more crucial for her. Son can thrive in many different environments.

[TheDad]

Circumstances vary.

I'm going to take both "sides" here and probably offend, rather than please, everyone.

First, programs such as Mudge's cited UMSI are golden. And there are many "top" programs such as nautical archaeology at non-first tier schools such Texas A&M or Astronomy at U/Arizona that are compelling. MusicMom also reminds us about music programs, etc. Ordinarily, *I* would think snotty thoughts about U/Indiana or U/Utah, for instance...but for Music or Dance, respectively, they're both very strong and I wouldn't murmur a word.

Second, in the journey of the exploration of "fit"--see Carolyn's daughter, for instance--where schools that many may have never heard of offer the combination of academic, social, program, etc. attributes that line up perfectly with what the student is looking for.

Next, some financial constraints are very real and those of us who are not so constrained should be silently grateful that we have more options. And where details are omitted for privacy and dignity, I think we need to try to accept the givens as given.

Finally--and I think I have a long enough track record on this board on this subject--obession about prestige is over the top and many of the people so-obsessed need to get a life.

On the other side of the coin, not all that glitters is gold. I've read far too many tales of students who were in one honors program or another and found themselves in far too small an island in far too large a sea. Stories like this are behind any number of transfer applications or unhappy college experiences where the student simply didn't get all that he or she should have out of the experience. It would be imprudent to be totally proscriptive, but I think--when one takes into account both the effect of academic peers *and* the expectations of professors, it's head-in-the-sand to blithely assume that one can get "just as good an education" at school X or Y as opposed to school A or B. An adequate education, certainly. Just as good...I wouldn't bet on it. [I think most of us see and accept this argument apropos of high schools without much argument...and I see no reason for the argument to go away when transposed to colleges.]

Secondly, I think that graduating from college debt-free is as misplaced a value as prestige whoring. I don't care how much money a student's family has, even if they can calmly write the check for a full ride, there is a value for the student to taking *some* of the financial investment in their own education, including working a few hours/week during the school year, more during the summer if not on internships, and taking out the minimal-in-the-scheme-of-things Stafford loans or an equivalent up to $12-14K for four years of college. This amount of debt will not particularly crimp them when it comes to consideration of either grad school or career.

Finally, the OP's original post is something of a Rohrshach test in which different readers see different things. It *can* be read with disquieting effect in that there is *no* mention of "fit" in any other dimension. [I just re-read it for the sixth time to make sure.]In that respect, it's a stark contrast to Mudge's carefully annotated saga, which is "fit"-centric that includes a high "financial aid" component but not a declaration of wanting to pay zero. One could take the post at face value with good intentions or one could just as easily read it, fairly, wondering whether the OP was trying to game the system where "paying zero"--as opposed to paying even a small amount--was the sole criterion.

The absence of any other consideration of fit makes this:

If it is the right thing to do to send you child to U Texas El Paso on a football scholarship, do it. If it is the right thing to do to send your child to a 4th tier honors college because it's the right thing to do for your child, do it. If having the child take on such enormous debt that it would hobble her future, don't do it.

If you are so into parents' life style or finances in some other way that you send your child to an inappropriately unchallenging college to save a few bucks, even covering the room and board of supporting her at home, you have values that should be acknowledged as such.

a perfectly reasonable, if perhaps impolitic, response: it acknowledged that the decision could be reasonable or not based on further information.

[OH_DAD]

I would presume most folks posting on this board are concerned with the Bachelor's Degree stage of academia. Given this, it is surprising to me how many folks have the impression that they or their child is going to change the world because of a Bachelor's Degree from a "Tier 1" school, whatever that presumes to be. IMHO this is highly unlikely. In today's environment, if you're truly intending to rocket to the top of whatever ladder you're climbing, that ascension is most likely going to be accompanied by an advanced degree. If you subscribe to this premise, then your goal in the Bachelor's program is to gain prompt, seamless admittance into the advanced degree environs that you seek (separate topic -- get a job with a respected "Tier 1" employer and LET THEM pay for the advanced degree!). I have never heard of a case of an outstanding student failing to get into a highly respected advanced degree program, assuming they were the "cream of the crop" at their undergraduate school, regardless of which "tier" that school occupied. If the advanced degree progression is acknowledged, it follows logically that the advantages both financial and academically, to capturing a near or full-ride at a sub-tier school are overwhelming in several ways. You will have no debt on receipt of your bachelor's degree, and you will absolutely tend to be at the higher end of the intelligence spectrum of your peers. Some see this as a negative - I see it as good strategy.

As I have alluded to in other posts, we have applied several "filters" to our school selection process which are absolutely not academic in any way. For our aerospace engineering prospect, we've looked for decent offerings in the instrumental music program, a decent "club" crew program, a decent ratio of girls-to-guys, and believe it or not, a broad spectrum of degrees such that in the event that he decides to change his major, he will not necessarily have to change schools! Are we the only ones thinking this way? Do people on this board realize what a great % of students change majors after entering college?

This will sound condescending, but I sort of feel sorry for the students and/or families who are so he//-bent on a "Tier 1" or IVY education that the likelihood of a well-rounded experience in college is likely sacrificed in the pursuit of some presumed educational nirvana.

To us, it's a no-brainer which type of school to select for a BACHELOR'S DEGREE. I sense that there are obvious factors which influence the perspective of those posters rendering judgment against the idea of finding and capturing a full-ride scholarship. Further, some of the posts come across as if there is a need to "prove" the investment in the child's education by paying an outsized EFC, since it can't possibly be correct that college could be free.

[idad]

I have said this before in other posts, but I believe it may be appropriate to say here as well, in the last 25 years I don't recall ever being asked where I went to undergrad school, grad school and with whom I studied yes, undergrad no. I must in principle agree with OH_DAD.

[calmom]

Just thought I'd post this link:
http://www.guaranteed-*****************/

This web site lists scholarships at various colleges which are guaranteed based on the specified criteria (generally test scores & class rank or GPA).

Just a good starting point for someone who wants to follow the path outlined in this thread.

[AnyMom99]

TheDad ~ That was a most eloquent summary of this thread. Bravo!

And as far as undergrad schools go, as we suspected, the name of my son's school has opened many doors to coops and other opportunities that would have been more difficult (if not impossible) if he were going to a State U. The fact that he can get very high paying coop jobs offsets his need for scholarship money, and motivates him to work hard at school and at the internships.

Where the money comes from to pay for the education is all a balance of priorities and family values.

[Junefour]

MomfromTexas,

Did you post a listing of your research and did you only include Texas?

[fendergirl]

I can't believe how rude some of you are being towards the original poster... it's like people feel you can't get a good education if you don't go to some big name school... which is a bunch of crap.

I'm glad that you shared your 'technique' with everyone.

[momfromtexas]

To Junebug

You asked if I posted my research and if it was only for Texas. I searched through the south, southwest, and midwest but not the western, northwestern, or northeastern US because my son didn't want those areas. Ask a question about what you are wondering and I will try to answer it.

[newmassdad]

Very interesting thread, that brings back memories from two years ago. D received a full ride merit scholarship, awarded based on their own exam, recs from HS and interviews, from a huge big ten university. Upon award, she asked "does this mean I'm one of the smartest kids in the school?" Answer after research was yes. Her interest went waaay down and she turned it down. For HER, it was the right decision. For many others, (including my savings) probably not.

My point is that FIT, as TheDad and others point out, is an intensely personal thing.

It is so easy to forget how faculty quality has reached way down in the higher ed heirarchy. The elite grad schools produce so many PhDs that it is not hard to find well trained folks at a wide variety of places. These folks can offer not only great mentoring but also great connections for grad school, if one so chooses.

Just as you don't judge an ivy grad just by the reputation of the alma mater, you approach less well known places the same way.

Kudos to the OP.

[patient]

TheDad, I agree that you did a very good job of summarizing and pointing out the validity of both sides of the discussion. However, what bothered me was that some posters immediately made assumptions about the OPs reasons behind her approach and condemned her for it, without even bothering to ask about reasons. That was unwarranted and unfair.

The eternal CC debates: private versus public, large versus small, near versus far, go into debt versus don't go into debt, Republican versus Democrat .

[emeraldkity4]

I didn't notice anyone including myself making assumptions about the OPs intent- I apologize if I did
However I want to add my voice to the "side" that enocurages students to have a range of schools that they are looking at, not just all reaches, not all schools that may offer them a "free ride" but a range of schools that include academic and financial matches.
We think it has been worth it to find a challenging school with a lot of resources that only requires that we come up with the EFC.
I realize some families can't/wont come up with EFC and that is why we have lists like this. BUt I don't think other families/students who make a reasonable contribution to obtaining a college education should be criticized as foolish because they are spending money they don't "have" to