TIME Article: What's Wrong with Our High Schools?

[tokenadult]

Yes, the basic problem is crummy math instruction in elementary schools leaving kids unable to move on to what is the minimal international standard in math by the time they get to junior high. The thing to fix here is elementary school math instruction--there are already plenty of places where parents who didn't learn that level of math in childhood have the happy experience of seeing their children go beyond the level they reached. The United States just has to learn from the countries where early math education is more successful.

http://timss.bc.edu/

http://nces.ed.gov/timss/

[jlauer95]

token:

I totally agree. And there is some crummy math teaching in MS and HS and it gets "hidden" when parents co-teach at home. That is what happened at my sons' school. It took the school 2 years to realize what the parents knew right away.... that the kids who were passing Alg II had parents "co-teaching" at home. The teacher (who has a PhD, no less) had NO TALENT for teaching concepts at ALL.... The school couldn't "see" the problem because half the class got "A's & "B's" and the rest got low C's, D's and F's. It was a clear case of the Haves vs the Have Nots.

[luckycharms]

Yes, the basic problem is crummy math instruction in elementary schools leaving kids unable to move on to what is the minimal international standard in math by the time they get to junior high.

I've never really thought about that, but you know what--it's true. I'm a senior now, and looking back over elementary school, it was like we just kept "learning" the same concepts over and over and over again from about 4th-6th grade--nothing new or challenging, except for a chapter in 5th grade about fractions. In 4th grade, we spent TWO WEEKS "learning" how to ROUND UP/DOWN NUMBERS!?!?! At the time I was ticked off at my teacher for that--at ten years old I was mad about all that wasted time. I'm sorry, but if there are a few kids in a class who for some reason don't understand that if the number ends in 5 or higher you round it up, DON'T HOLD THE WHOLE CLASS BACK TOO!!! Yay for caving to the lowest common denominator....not....

Unless this gets fixed, I think I'm going to homeschool my kids until high school, and actually teach them well...

[jlauer95]

lucky;

Or do what many of us do.... "co-teach" at home. We send out kids to school (for social and other reasons) but "co-teach" what they aren't being taught at schools.

AND, start before kindergarten. On each of my boys' 4th B-days, I started teaching them to read. One son took 4 weeks to learn -- the other only took 2 weeks to learn to read. It only took a few minutes each day.

[Maize&Blue]

One of the many reasons why kids drop out is that no one expects anything of them. Hold them accountable and provide support (start with beefed up elementary program) and they will handle the exposure to higher level coursework. Kids are less likely to place into remedial college math courses and less likely to drop out of college if they have taken more than 2 years of high school math.

[jlauer95]

>>>> One of the many reasons why kids drop out is that no one expects anything of them. <<<

yes, but the school alone cannot provide the "expectation". If parents don't have the expectations (and many do NOT) that their kids can learn (or need to learn) higher level math, then there is not much a school can do.

[calmom]

It's not just math. Here in California there is a major problem because ESL students must take and pass the exit exam. Many are bright kids and pass the math portion of the exam, but flounder on the English section. These are often kids who have been in this country only short timeand have acquired verbal fluency in English and basic writing skills, but they can't get past the grammar & usage questions presented on the exam. Getting grammar/usage right in a second language is tough even at the college level-- and of course exams tend to present questions that are tricky or geared to common usage errors.

Of the students who still struggle to pass, the report notes a disproportionate number are minorities and English learners. An estimated 20 percent of African-American students, 31 percent of English learners, and 18 percent of economically disadvantaged students have yet to pass both portions of the exam.

Source: http://www.themilpitaspost.com/schools/ci_3681042

[csdad]

Interesting conversation some points : 1) quaility of instruction.... hiring good math teachers is the most difficult thing for school administrators. Most teachers go into math because they were good at it in school. The reason they were good at it was because they have above average nonverbal skills which are required for success in math (visual-perceptual skills), however these same skills are not predictive of success in teaching where above average verbal skills are needed. English, Social Studies, all teachers who teach language-based subjects are more likely to be good teachers because the nature of their subject fits in with why they are interested in it in the first place (language). 2) Requireemnt of ALG II to graduate. We started with that in NY state a number of years ago but the state has softened and we are now offering electives such as "world of technology" for our third mat. 3) dropout rate....kids who are dropping out in our school are those who can't make themselves get to class, who are attempting to wander the halls all day. the vast majority have the intellectual ability to [pass classes but lack the discipline. This comes from home. The same schools thay are turning out outstanding young people who are doing great things such as eagle scouts, scholarship athletes, community leaders, acceptences at top colleges, are also geting drop outs. It's the same school, but different homes that they are coming from.

[jaybee]

Boy, the talk about co-teaching really hits home here. I "co-taught" my son math (and nothing else) for 12 years. Te teacher would spend endless hours on the "why" of the lesson, and after 3 minutes of the "how to do the problem" from Mom at home, my son would say "so that is all it was about???"

Unfortunately, years of that taught him to glaze over in class, and rely on Mom for his instruction--not a good lesson.

jlauer & token, can't we also agree that there are some kids who SHOULD be able to get high school diplomas that are not intellectually capable of Algebra II?

[Eagle79]

To me this is the most interesting thing:

Fully 88% said they had passing grades in high school. Asked to name the reasons they had left school, more respondents named boredom than struggles with course work.

To me I think boredom is often an issue that the schools do not deal with well, even for those that stay in school.

[jlauer95]

>>> Here in California there is a major problem because ESL students must take and pass the exit exam. <<<

As someone who used to teach in California, I am very familiar with this problem.. ... But, we don't want schools to drop the standard just so English Learners can pass because then those kids won't do well in college. I used to teach a summer class that was designed just to help those English Learners improve their grammar and usage skills.

[jlauer95]

>>>>> Most teachers go into math because they were good at it in school. The reason they were good at it was because they have above average nonverbal skills which are required for success in math (visual-perceptual skills), however these same skills are not predictive of success in teaching where above average verbal skills are needed.<<<<

Thank you CSDAD for verbalizing what I had been thinking about the Alg II teacher that my s had last year. She has a PhD but no personality and no "people skills". Your words summarize the problem perfectly.

[jlauer95]

>>>> the vast majority have the intellectual ability to [pass classes but lack the discipline. This comes from home. <<<

Absolutely.... that is why states that have increased their per pupil spending to unbelievable heights (D.C, for one) still don't see any improvements.

Kids need discipline- and it begins at home. There are so many reasons discipline is lacking these days and it's not just because of "single moms" (who often get targeted with this). There are many "intact" homes that spoil kids rotten and don't insist on obedience.

It's amazing how many kids don't even have to do any regular chores at home -- that is the first step of teaching discipline. It teaches kids to spend time on things other than "fun" or "self interest".

I once saw a Dr. Phil show where he had several couples who "thought" that they were doing a "good job" with their kids -- they love them, etc. But, it was obvious to Dr Phil that these parents were completely on the wrong track. He told them, "Most parents to the best that they know how to do." That hits the nail on the head. So many parents THINK that they are doing a good job, but in fact, are doing a lousy job and are causing the exact problems that they lament.

[jlauer95]

jlauer & token, can't we also agree that there are some kids who SHOULD be able to get high school diplomas that are not intellectually capable of Algebra II?

First, I think, we need to determine WHO can't really learn it and who just would like to take the "easier way out". If a child's test scores are at a low level, then they should be on a "track" that allows them to graduate w/o Alg II. However, that track needs to include classes in other skills that will help them with their careers.

[jlauer95]

>>>> more respondents named boredom than struggles with course work.
<<<<


I wouldn't take those responses at "face value". What drop out wouldn't say "boredom"? That removes the "blame" from himself. You see..."It's not my fault that I dropped out. It's the school's fault; the teachers were boring." Yes, some are boring but most are not!!! And it is a part of life that we have to endure some "boring" times. get over it.

I have yet to meet a drop out who admitted that he dropped out because he was flunking because he didn't do homework, didn't bother to read his texts, ditched classes, and/or fooled around while in class (no matter how interesting the class was).