Welcome to College Confidential!

The leading college-bound community on the web

Sign Up For Free

Join for FREE, and start talking with other members, weighing in on community discussions, and more.

Also, by registering and logging in you'll see fewer ads and pesky welcome messages (like this one!)

As a CC member, you can:

  • Reply to threads, and start your own.
  • Post reviews of your campus visits.
  • Find hundreds of pages of informative articles.
  • Search from over 3 million scholarships.

The Plague of ‘Early Decision’

13233353738

Replies to: The Plague of ‘Early Decision’

  • GnocchiBGnocchiB Registered User Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    @RustyTrowel or others - could you please name any/some of the "ED3" schools? I'm wondering what "level" they are and what other schools they're trying to poach from.

    TIA
  • DeepBlue86DeepBlue86 Registered User Posts: 379 Member
    I guess I'm not certain it's as clear-cut as that, @Zinhead. Who's to say that she'd be accepted RD, even if she's terrific? This could be a case of "Tufts syndrome", where they really like her but don't want to waste an admit if she's not coming. Alternatively, she may be a little less than they want, but they're happy to have her if she'll commit. So they make this proposal, where they show their hand, and see if that makes the sale. It sounds aggressive to me, but not evil.
  • RustyTrowelRustyTrowel Registered User Posts: 65 Junior Member
    For now, I am just going to have to let Kiddo play her cards, explaining the likely outcomes as I see them. She has a good hand--better than I had thought, apparently. But this school has accurately assessed the "fit" question. So Kiddo has some mulling over to do.
  • Sam-I-AmSam-I-Am Registered User Posts: 204 Junior Member
    edited January 24
    @GnocchiB, if I am not mistaken, UChicago has offered its deferred early applicants the chance to switch their applications to ED2. Not sure whether that school is what @RustyTrowel and @DeepBlue86 are talking about, though. The UChicago offer was probably sent to all deferred EA applicants and I do not think it was intended to increase pressure, though it could have that effect. The UChicago EA system underwent revision right before they started taking applications and the addition of ED and ED2 as options was likely not entirely understood by all applicant families. They were tinkering with ED2 even during this cycle. To be clear, UChicago is not calling this ED3 and neither is any other school. Not sure what the deadline for deferred applicants to convert was or whether they are still allowing it to go on.

    To answer the second part of your question, and to use your word, they presumably would be trying to "poach" from HYPSM. But I am not sure that they are poaching. They are trying to protect yield, so perhaps that is the same thing. When UChicago was a strictly EA school, I bet they lost a certain number of early admits to HYPSM and they may be trying to prevent this.
  • JHSJHS Registered User Posts: 16,339 Senior Member
    edited January 24
    If you read the University of Chicago board on CC, you know darn well that Chicago's new EA/ED/ED2 system has ramped up the pressure on applicants to a considerable extent. Apparently, Chicago no longer makes public the number or composition of its early applications and early admissions. But before they went dark, they had already crossed the line of handing out more early admissions than regular ones -- and thus likely admitting well more than half of its class EA. The perception now is that there was a huge advantage in applying ED this fall, and the many, many EA applicants who were deferred were all in a panic about whether to convert their applications to ED2. Many apparently have. Which in turn ramps up the pressure on people who were planning to apply RD, including many very strong candidates who are deferred SCEA applicants.

    I am generally a huge University of Chicago fan -- sometimes almost a shill -- but this disturbs me. I thought Chicago's old unrestricted EA policy was great, exactly what universities should do, except at the end I thought they were accepting too many people early. This year's policy seems like an evil experiment to see just how low they can drive their acceptance rate, and to assess the cost of that in student quality and student anxiety, and its effect on the college's character. It's something of an institutionalized Tufts Syndrome, trying to assure that they admit the fewest number of people possible who might decide to go elsewhere. I hope they moderate it or abandon it next year. It's not good for the applicants, and it's not good for the university, either.
  • bluebayoubluebayou Registered User Posts: 23,859 Senior Member
    Don't abandon early admission:
    ...According to a 2014 report from the Pew Research Center, 51 percent of all low-income students were enrolled in college compared to 81 percent of all high-income students (defining low income as the bottom 20 percent of all family incomes and high income as the top 20 percent). In other words, many more high-income students enroll in college in the first place, so it is not surprising that many more high-income students also enroll through early decision.

    This underscores the real issue for American higher education. We need to spend less time advocating for the elimination of a program, like early admission, that attracts higher-income students (who, by the way, help to bring in the revenue to support lower-income students) and more time -- as the Cooke Foundation and many colleges do so well -- developing better ways to recruit and support low-income students through to graduation. The future competitiveness of our country depends on it.

    https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2017/01/24/colleges-shouldnt-abandon-early-admissions-programs-essay
  • RustyTrowelRustyTrowel Registered User Posts: 65 Junior Member
    The fog clears. All roads lead to ED.

    My example (not Chicago): RD -> school-initiated optional conversion from RD to ED2 ("ED3")
    @JHS's example (Chicago): EA -> deferred -> applicant-initiated optional conversion from EA-deferred to ED2

    Next year, the other schools will pile on. RD becomes....steerage among the top ~20 schools.
  • hzhao2004hzhao2004 Registered User Posts: 422 Member
    UChicago just turns me off with its sleazy marketing, and now this blatant gaming of EA/ED. No matter how low its admission rate might be, in my mind, it is never going to be HYPSM.
  • Sam-I-AmSam-I-Am Registered User Posts: 204 Junior Member
    So at some point fill us all in regarding the school you are talking about, @RustyTrowel. I presume now is not a good time.
  • mathmommathmom Registered User Posts: 28,565 Senior Member
    Once upon a time (and perhaps still) Chicago offered something a little different from HYPSM. It was very attractive to my younger son precisely because of their emphasis on the life of the mind, relative indifference to their sports team, and the fun essay topics that allowed a quirky, smart, but perhaps - in high school at least - somewhat underachieving kid to show their chops. I'm very disappointed with the addition of ED, ED2 and ED offers to EA deferrals. I actually liked their marketing just fine. (At least four or five years ago, when the current admissions director was just getting started.)
  • DeepBlue86DeepBlue86 Registered User Posts: 379 Member
    I haven't been reading the UoC boards, and maybe it's all been explained there, but I think this new full menu policy isn't going away, because it's great for yield protection and selectivity at UoC - not so much for the stressed-out kids.

    The kids who apply SCEA to HYPS and are admitted won't be applying to UoC, by and large, but if they're deferred or denied, UoC has a good chance of scooping up some of the rattled ones in ED2. Meanwhile, UoC gets a jump on evaluating a large number of applicants in its own EA round and then offers them the chance for ED2 to see who they can lock up. The next step for UoC, one can guess, will be to target some of its preferred RD applicants and offer them ED2 status to see if it can lock them up that way and avoid losing them in the RD round to peers or SCEA schools.

    @RustyTrowel, I would guess that, knowing what we know now, perceived competitive pressure will drive all the non-SCEA Ivies and their non-Ivy peers with ED to add ED2 in the next year or so if they don't already have it, and, if UoC or any other of them starts doing it, they'll all begin offering selected candidates from the RD pool the option to convert to ED2.

    If this happens, my guess is that HYPS won't care much about losing some of the candidates they deferred or denied SCEA to ED2 elsewhere. That said, if the ED crowd starts a campaign to eliminate Tufts Syndrome by selectively targeting significant numbers of highly-qualified students in their RD pools and offering them the chance to convert to ED2, that would be more bothersome. If this happens, a lot of kids will be making tough decisions in January and, as others have noted, potentially foreclosing their ability to compare aid offers if they're not full payers. That said, targeting full-pay RD applicants with ED2 might be a very effective strategy for the ED schools, if not the applicants.
  • Sam-I-AmSam-I-Am Registered User Posts: 204 Junior Member
    Let's not hyperventilate over UChicago. I believe their original plan was to direct its deferred EA applicants straight thru to the RD round. However (judging from the UC deferred CC threads I read), some deferred EA applicants asked to change to ED2. Originally this did not appear to be an allowed option. Admissions opened it up to those that requested it and in fairness offered it to all. I am on the outside and this is merely what I see/guess. I don't think it was meant to be an evil plan and I don't really think it is too problematic. However I hope UC lets in a reasonable number of its deferred EA applicants RD. If not then the EA is for "show" or worst is a trap to applicants. The EA option has to be genuine this admissions cycle or the crazy work (essays/visits/interviewing) done by applicants is unfair and there may be fewer applicants in the future. Every kid expects a fair shot. I will assume this to be the case unless UC does not admit a fair ratio of qualified EA deferred kids in April.
  • ZinheadZinhead Registered User Posts: 1,928 Senior Member
    If not then the EA is for "show" or worst is a trap to applicants.

    "It's a trap!" is probably the best description for ED programs. Most of the kids that get accepted ED are strong enough candidates to be successful applicants at a variety of institutions, but they get scared into locking themselves into one school early. UChicago's twist on the process will likely be replicated at a variety of colleges next year, further reducing student options and giving more and more leverage to the schools and less to the students.
  • Sam-I-AmSam-I-Am Registered User Posts: 204 Junior Member
    EA is not supposed to be ED so let's see if those deferred EA applicants are treated fairly in the RD round at U Chicago. Hopefully deferred applicants will weigh in with outcomes on the applicable threads.
  • Sam-I-AmSam-I-Am Registered User Posts: 204 Junior Member
    If you are full pay ED can make sense if your kid has done their homework on the school notwithstanding the name of this thread. Lol!
Sign In or Register to comment.