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Why don't Colleges teach students how to speak ?

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Replies to: Why don't Colleges teach students how to speak ?

  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 737 Member
    @collegedad13

    Based on what do you research a doctors' reputation? It's controversial how much a famous medical school or residency matters for clinical practice, especially for routine surgery. Most doctors I know seem to think all the online rankings are worse than useless, and nurses aren't qualified to judge them clinically.
  • romanigypsyeyesromanigypsyeyes Registered User Posts: 30,904 Senior Member
    My body is a giant game of whack-a-mole when it comes to diseases. I'm up to something like 8 major diagnoses in the last year. I have a team of many doctors and I have let some doctors go because I didn't feel comfortable with them.

    You know what I don't give a lick about? How they speak or their bedside manner. Frankly, if you can figure out what is wrong with me, you can speak and act pretty much however you want (of course, there are some extreme exceptions).

    I know there are lots of people out there who want their doctor to fit some specific mold or another- US educated, no accent, very friendly, etc- and that's fine for them. At this point though, I'm way beyond caring. I'd accept a freaking Klingon doctor and medicine if s/he could figure out what was really wrong with me. *shrug*
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 10,762 Senior Member
    "If it does, it's dumb and self-defeating. If you're turning away potentially awesome employees because of such superficial biases as "like" and uptalk, you're a bad manager and employer. Great employees are hard to come by, and very, very few companies have the luxury of only hiring people who exhibit all the same social signifiers as they do."

    Since great employees ARE hard to come by, the advice of "it doesn't matter" doesn't apply to the average employee at all. Of course, employers will make an exception for the genius type whether it's a genius portfolio manager or genius coder. But, as stated, they ARE rare, so very few employees have the luxury of not paying attention to details that matter in their particular industry - speech, clothing, and behavior patterns being among those details. The job market for most people isn't so robust that it can be ignored.


    "Last summer one of my kids was at a major tech company as an intern. Most of the people on their team could barely communicate at all. However they were great coders. "

    And they'll remain coders. Which is fine if that is what they want to do but they won't be groomed for anything beyond that.
  • halcyonheatherhalcyonheather Registered User Posts: 8,987 Senior Member
    edited February 16
    I mostly agree with what has been said about "like," but the comments about upspeak are surprising because I've seen many instances of people being viewed positively while using upspeak, with the upspeak seemingly helping (maybe it makes them seem friendlier). Every time I've been to a career fair, the students and representatives were upspeaking to high heaven. Some people do it to a truly extreme extent where it's grating (and I'm guessing some people think all upspeak is like this because they don't notice the more subtle cases), but IME people do not perceive the "normal" level of upspeak in a negative way.
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 10,762 Senior Member
    I've only seen it mentioned once early on in this discussion but, to me, vocal fry is much, much more irritating than upspeak.
  • lookingforwardlookingforward Registered User Posts: 21,889 Senior Member
    edited February 16
    Communication is interaction. Why should I have to slog thru what another says, to get the message? Why should I like statements presented as questions? Why does it have to be the listener doing the work? Can't the speaker make an effort to be clear?

    www.psychologytoday.com/blog/caveman-logic/201010/the-uptalk-epidemic
    "Like you're not quite sure what you're saying is true."

    There's a difference between a doctor saying, "We aren't sure" vs "Like, your blood count is, um, down?"
  • QuantMechQuantMech Registered User Posts: 6,910 Senior Member
    It is interesting how different people view uptalk. I hear uptalk as an attempt to connect with the people to whom one is speaking--in effect, to ask in a brief and polite form, "Do you understand what I am saying?" When I hear it, it does not come across as doubt.

    I have attorney friends who are very negative about uptalk. In their profession, it is clearly a disadvantage, and I can see that this would apply to physicians as well.

    In my part of the country, uptalk is much more common as a speech pattern among young women than among men. I don't use it much. However, I have noticed that I do use uptalk if I am speaking to an almost entirely female audience.

    Either vocal fry is not very common in my area yet, or I have heard it without having it identified to me. I don't know what it is, really.

    In the random-yet-somewhat-related-complaint category: The increasingly common substitution of "shtr" for "str" in pronunciation of words by the newscasters, analysts, and interviewers on NMR really annoys me. If they were German, I would cut them slack, but they don't seem to be German.
  • ChrchillChrchill Registered User Posts: 502 Member
    @lookingforward Brilliant Example. I have had several instances where a colleague was on the phone with me and a client and used endless likes and upspeak.. The client called five minutes after the call to complain and demanded to remove the colleague from the account because he found his speaking style annoying and juvenile. This speaking style is akin to a bad sauce that can ruin a great dish.
  • QuantMechQuantMech Registered User Posts: 6,910 Senior Member
    Why cahn't everyone speak proper BBC English? :)
  • gouf78gouf78 Registered User Posts: 5,157 Senior Member
    edited February 16
    As for speech patterns I have to agree that making the listener work harder does not help the speaker get their point across. You don't want the audience to check out before the message is delivered.

    Know your audience. Everyone has biases.
    My D had purple hair once at work (I wasn't a fan) ! But she works with artists who all thought that was great.
    She didn't dress up much--but blended in nicely in her environment.
    Now she's upgrading wardrobe and becoming a bit more "traditional" because those are the people she is interacting with on a daily basis. She can communicate her ideas and her talent can come across more easily because a physical barrier (and a bias) is removed from the equation. Was she just as talented with purple hair?--of course!

    First impressions do count. The "weird genius" whose talents are already well-known will be welcome for those talents. But that is pretty rare. Everyone else has to prove themselves. And first you need the interview.

    Elbert Hubbard (The Notebooks of Elbert Hubbard--1927) had a story I loved.
    It was in direct response to "what I wear shouldn't make a difference to people".(a common discussion in teen years)
    He felt very strongly that it shouldn't matter. But he tested it to the extreme.
    He dressed up in an outfit similar to prison garb (today it would be an orange jumpsuit) and traveled along the road. This was in the 20's or earlier on rural roads where normally people would be willing to help a stranger. He was hoping that once he spoke to someone that they would accept him. He was a good guy. He didn't get very far before he gave up.
    Guess what? People (surprise!) judged him without ever speaking to him. He was harassed by police.He couldn't even get a glass of water. His conclusion? First impressions meant a lot more than he realized.
  • ThankYouforHelpThankYouforHelp Registered User Posts: 1,000 Senior Member
    How one speaks can matter for advancement, especially in professional career paths.

    How college students speak while they are among peers is not particularly correlated to how they will speak in job interviews or in their career.

    Historically, older people have used criticism of colloquial language among the youth as a proxy for disagreement with changes in moral/political values or lifestyle that the older person finds distressing or confusing.

    These observations are all my own opinions, of course. :)
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