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Betsy DeVos statement on historically black colleges and universities

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Replies to: Betsy DeVos statement on historically black colleges and universities

  • skieuropeskieurope Super Moderator Posts: 22,201 Super Moderator
    edited February 28
    MODERATOR'S NOTE
    There is a way to discuss this topic without derailing the thread/making noise/mud slinging/political discussion. Please abide by the rules to avoid this thread being closed. 10 posts deleted
  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 748 Member
    edited February 28
    @cobrat You're forgetting the fact that the entire US including the NE/Mid-Atlantic was mostly an agrarian society well into the early 20th century.
    This is false. Nationwide, farmers became a minority around 1870, and by the early 20th century were little more than a third of the population. Those percentages would be even lower in the NE/Mid-Atlantic region.
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/trouble/timeline/
    http://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/20/us/farm-population-lowest-since-1850-s.html
    Also children in the 19th and early 20th centuries were also "needed" to work in the urban factories created in the wake of the industrial revolution in the urban NE so that's a bit of a non-sequitur.

    Compulsory education laws were passed in the North far earlier than in the South. A combination of unions and public laws worked to increasingly restrict the ability of children to work in factories during the 19th century in ways that weren't applied to farming. So no there weren't the same job requirements for children in the NE, at least between the civil war and WWI, as there were for children in the South.

  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 748 Member
    I don't believe vouchers would cover all of tuition, and even if they did in the beginning I wouldn't trust them to remain that way.

    This is odd logic. Imagine, if someone said, I don't think public schools will ever be adequately funded, and even if they did in the beginning, I wouldn't trust them to remain that way, so let's not fund them at all.
    I do believe every kid has the right to a great education. I just don't believe they should have to leave their community to get it.

    The best way to improve education is to separate the smart kids from the dumb kids and enforce discipline. You want a school whether private, charter, or public magnet that has selective admissions or at least the ability to counsel out students who aren't performing to standards either academically or behaviorally.
  • marvin100marvin100 Registered User Posts: 9,013 Senior Member
    I don't think public schools will ever be adequately funded, and even if they did in the beginning, I wouldn't trust them to remain that way, so let's not fund them at all.

    That's not such "odd logic"--after all, they haven't always remained that way and this voucher proposal is exactly the kind of thing that must be pushed against if we'd like public schools to be well funded and supported in policy at the national and state levels.
  • marvin100marvin100 Registered User Posts: 9,013 Senior Member
    The best way to improve education is to separate the smart kids from the dumb kids and enforce discipline.

    You say this as if it's settled pedagogical truth. It is not, and there is a constellation of research and writing in disagreement (as there is in support), much of which hinges on how you define "best" and what you see as the role of education. Your comment reminds me of Woodrow Wilson, then president of Princeton University, who said the following to the New York City School Teachers Association in 1909:
    We want one class of persons to have a liberal education, and we want another class of persons, a very much larger class, of necessity, in every society, to forgo the privileges of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks.
  • cobratcobrat Registered User Posts: 11,305 Senior Member
    Your comment reminds me of Woodrow Wilson, then president of Princeton University, who said the following to the New York City School Teachers Association in 1909:
    We want one class of persons to have a liberal education, and we want another class of persons, a very much larger class, of necessity, in every society, to forgo the privileges of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks.

    And it's ironic considering President Wilson's southern roots and sympathies with the Confederate cause and their ruling elite's ideal society was one arranged in a rigid feudalistic hierarchy.

    And that ideal is embodied to some extent in that very quoted statement he made in that 1909 speech.
  • 3scoutsmom3scoutsmom Registered User Posts: 3,552 Senior Member
    Won't students be able to choose go to public schools that fit their needs, I didn't think school choice would be limited to private schools.
  • TanbikoTanbiko Registered User Posts: 109 Junior Member
    "We want one class of persons to have a liberal education, and we want another class of persons, a very much larger class, of necessity, in every society, to forgo the privileges of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."

    Looks like the educational system in Germany and many other European countries
  • marvin100marvin100 Registered User Posts: 9,013 Senior Member
    3scoutsmom wrote:
    Won't students be able to choose go to public schools that fit their needs, I didn't think school choice would be limited to private schools.

    As always, the devil's in the details. You may want to read up!
    Tanbiko wrote:
    Won't students be able to choose go to public schools that fit their needs, I didn't think school choice would be limited to private schools.

    Yes, the US public education system was modeled on that of Prussia.
  • 3scoutsmom3scoutsmom Registered User Posts: 3,552 Senior Member
    edited February 28
    @marvin100 care to offer a link where I can read up about school choice not including public schools? I'd really like to see the details you are speaking of.
  • cobratcobrat Registered User Posts: 11,305 Senior Member
    "We want one class of persons to have a liberal education, and we want another class of persons, a very much larger class, of necessity, in every society, to forgo the privileges of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."

    Looks like the educational system in Germany and many other European countries

    Not very surprising considering the modern US public school systems as we know it were modeled after the Prussian public school system in the mid-late 19th century.

  • 3scoutsmom3scoutsmom Registered User Posts: 3,552 Senior Member
    @Marvin100 none of those links said school choice would not include other public schools, many of them explicitly said that PUBLIC charter schools will be a part of school choice. Please quote where public schools will be excluded from school choice.
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