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Penn State fraternity and 18 of its members are charged in student's death

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Replies to: Penn State fraternity and 18 of its members are charged in student's death

  • bester1bester1 Registered User Posts: 891 Member
    Another Penn State fraternity suspended after student hospitalized.........
    https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/10/06/another-penn-state-fraternity-suspended-after-student-hospitalized/23235960/


    You can read PSU's statement on the issue at the end of the article.
  • Muad_dibMuad_dib Registered User Posts: 498 Member
    Still shaking my head as to why fraternities even exist anymore? What good do they do?
  • jpc763jpc763 Registered User Posts: 302 Member
    I joined a Fraternity as a Sophomore in the early 1980's. It was a great experience for me as I was at a huge school in CA (SDSU) and it compartmentalized it somewhat. I made many friends through that experience that I still have today. There was hazing at my Fraternity when I was there but it was nothing like what I am reading about. We had to memorize stuff. We had to get signatures in our black books. We had to clean the house. I was never forced to drink anything and I was never physically abused. I am SURE that was going on at other houses and my chapter was suspended in 2013 for alleged hazing. National pulled the charter and SDSU kicked them off campus. I was sad but supported the action.

    I now have one son who is a Freshman and another son that is a HS senior. As I read these stories, I am just as shocked and saddened as you all are. I too don't understand how it can still be happening! I am sad and very wary of Fraternities these days. S17 is all about the Marching Band and is not likely to join. S18 is a possibility but I will try to help him make a good choice. There ARE good choices out there. There ARE fraternities that do not haze and when you find one you do find a great organization where young men make lifelong friends, give back to their school and community and actually espouse the values that the fraternities have. The challenge will be to find them.
  • MYOS1634MYOS1634 Registered User Posts: 31,083 Senior Member
    edited October 9
    Wait was that a student saying "we figured they'd handle it, we just went on our way" after seeing an unconscious classmate on the sidewalk???? Or am I misreading this?
  • bester1bester1 Registered User Posts: 891 Member
    Nope...you read that correctly.....I just can't understand it.
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 14,084 Senior Member
    Well, in fairness actually, the quote said this: " There was a big crowd of people, we figured they'd handle it"
    It wasn't like they were the first on the scene, noticed, and callously kept walking. Do you really need more looky loos and gawkers? If anything, more people just get in the way.
  • bester1bester1 Registered User Posts: 891 Member
    Interfraternity CEO: 'Am I just fighting for a bunch of idiots?'........

    http://www.businessinsider.com/interfraternity-ceo-doesnt-know-scope-of-hazing-2017-10
  • MYOS1634MYOS1634 Registered User Posts: 31,083 Senior Member
    @doschicos, I wasn't sure of the meaning.
  • bester1bester1 Registered User Posts: 891 Member
    College students keep dying because of fraternity hazing. Why is it so hard to stop?........
    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/2017/10/college_students_keep_dying_because_of_fraternity_hazing_why_is_it_so_hard_to
  • tutumom2001tutumom2001 Registered User Posts: 528 Member
    While I will admit that hazing is definitely a problem in fraternity life, I do wish we wouldn't focus solely on fraternities to the detriment of other organizations. I have friends who were hazed through their soccer and rugby teams (the rugby hazing was one of the worst I've ever heard about and honestly was worse than the PSU incident in this thread). Friends at a small LAC without Greek life had underground secret societies that hazed. My BIL attended a small CTCL and went through "dorm hazing" his freshman year. We were hazed in marching band. It's everywhere, but people seem to think it only happens in fraternities.
  • QuantMechQuantMech Registered User Posts: 7,274 Senior Member
    I don't think justice is served by making an example of people, and I also don't wish to see people being overcharged. On the other hand, I think the take-away message that fraternity members are likely to draw from this case is that they can walk away from problems they have caused, even if that leads to death. Certainly momofthreeboys has expected the charges to be dismissed, all along. I think that expectation on the part of fraternity members explains in part why this type of thing keeps happening.

    As long as the fraternity members don't actually pour the alcohol down someone's throat, they can maintain that the person drank voluntarily. I think this idea should be re-examined. I have heard of cases where the pledge class as a group "has" to consume a certain amount of alcohol. It seems unlikely to me that anyone in the pledge group who actually wanted to be in the fraternity would decline to drink.

    Another aspect that I wonder about: civil liability. I have thought that if one serves alcohol to an inebriated person when one is hosting a party at home, and the person subsequently gets into an accident, the host has civil liability for that. Is that true only in some states? Do the fraternity members have civil liability in the Piazza case? Could one get around the liability by putting open bottles on the table, but not actually pouring from them--letting the guest do that? I would think not, but I don't know.

    And yes to tutumom2001's comment--there is hazing outside of fraternities. There was a marching-band hazing death not that long ago, and I think the young man who died had already been in the band for several years.
  • 1or2Musicians1or2Musicians Registered User Posts: 1,217 Senior Member
    Ten arrest warrants were issued today in the case of the LSU pledge who died. All charged with hazing, one with negligent homicide.

    His BAC was .495.
  • MYOS1634MYOS1634 Registered User Posts: 31,083 Senior Member
    Let's see if things turn out the way they did in center county.
  • jpc763jpc763 Registered User Posts: 302 Member
    Did anyone watch the episode of Bull last night? It was about a hazing death.
  • MomfromPA15317MomfromPA15317 Registered User Posts: 86 Junior Member
    @tutumom2001 and Quantmech, I agree with you both. Here is an article from this week about the military:

    http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/10/11/marines-kick-out-15-troops-in-west-coast-hazing-crackdown.html

    What I applaud about this article is that leadership is stepping up and weeding out the bad apples. They exist everywhere from sports teams, bands, fraternities, military etc. The difference between this approach and what is happening at PSU, for example, is that the PSU sanctions penalize the entire system. The Marines are not penalizing the entire platoon for bad behavior. They are getting rid of those causing problems. If Greek organizations are to be cleaned up, a better approach would be to get rid of the members and chapters that are causing problems. Penalizing any sorority and the other 39 fraternities for what happened at Beta is overreaching. Better to figure out where the problems lie and pick them off one by one. With 40+ fraternities on campus, maybe after 10 are gone, those remaining will be the ones that are following the rules or, if not before, will recognize that to survive they must stop dangerous behavior.
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