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"Audit Blast Penn State on Out of State Students"

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Replies to: "Audit Blast Penn State on Out of State Students"

  • bester1bester1 Registered User Posts: 844 Member
    Penn State University President Eric Barron received a $224,000 bonus last fiscal year, bringing his total earnings to more than $1 million and placing him among the top 10 highest-paid public college presidents in the country.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2017/06/28/eric-barron-penn-state-highest-paid-university-presidents-chronicle-higher-education/stories/201706270159
  • cobratcobrat Registered User Posts: 12,277 Senior Member
    Georgia Tech's focus is about as wide as MIT's, and that has not stopped MIT from being considered one of the top five schools in the country.
    MIT has top depts in many areas outside engineering. Econ, poli sci, chem, bio, business- etc. Cal Tech not so much. Engineering is a small part of most universities. UC has many areas that are also top notch. GT has basically one.

    @Barrons beat me to the punch on the reply I intended to write. Well done!
  • turtle17turtle17 Registered User Posts: 63 Junior Member
    It is a bit of a weird place to defend GT and engineering, but I would argue that student interests (related to broader societal changes) has made it such that a statement like they don't have top depts outside of engineering has become similar to they don't have top departments outside of arts and sciences, especially if you separate out life science/medical school complexes.
    The reality is the UNSWR ranking of GT shows you can get pretty far with an engineering focus. Whatever measure you use, YTAR, 25-75% scores, and the usnwr, the reality is places like GT are doing well. And I don't live in Georgia or do engineering. I also think it is why the profiles of OOS students at Michigan and Purdue have become stronger relative to some of their peers.
  • Gator88NEGator88NE Registered User Posts: 5,352 Senior Member
    edited June 30
    Using MIT as the comparison to critique GT? What engineering focused schools come out ahead in that comparison?

    GT has 6 colleges:

    College of Business
    College of Computing
    College of Design
    College of Engineering
    College of Liberal Arts
    College of Sciences

    The at least 5 of these areas can be considered "Top Notched" and it deserves to be ranked as a top 10 Public university.

    GT doesn't claim to be a great comprehensive university, but a great Institute of Technology.

    I don't even know why GT is being pulled into this discussion. NONE of the issues, raised by the auditor apply to GT.

    For example:

    While PSU is very "expensive" for in-state students, GT is much more affordable, plus the state of Georgia offers a great in-state scholarship.

    While OOS students at PSU have a higher acceptance rate than in-state students, At GT, OOS acceptance rates where about 18%, while in-state was in the 40% range.

    On Governance, PSU has an unique relationship with the state, while GT is a typical state public university.
  • turtle17turtle17 Registered User Posts: 63 Junior Member
    Maybe it is in the sense that GT is being more successful than PSU at being a high quality state university at an affordable price for in state students.
  • bester1bester1 Registered User Posts: 844 Member
    edited June 30
    The reason the audit took place was because of the Sandusky/Paterno scandal....Son Jay proclaimed Joe was innocent until the truth comes out.....oh no...don't look now......Jay drops suit.....Jay is a member of the Board of Trustees....Jay no longer likes the truth

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/06/30/paterno-family-abandons-all-claims-against-ncaa/444793001/

    “The Paterno family characterized this case as a ‘search for the truth,’ ” Donald Remy, NCAA chief legal officer, said in a statement. “Its decision today, after years of investigation and discovery, to abandon its lawsuit rather than subject those facts to courtroom examination is telling."

    http://www.wtae.com/article/paterno-family-drops-lawsuit-against-ncaa-over-freeh-report/10247914

  • bluemoodbluemood Registered User Posts: 4 New Member
    maybe you are confusing Penn State with U of Penn (which is private, Ivy League like Cornell)
  • mom2andmom2and Registered User Posts: 2,103 Senior Member
    Does PennState and other large Us count recitation sessions as classes when looking at class size? It is hard to believe that Penn State runs courses with less than10 students.
  • Gator88NEGator88NE Registered User Posts: 5,352 Senior Member
    ^^^You'll be surprised how small classes can be, once you're into your major at a large "comprehensive" university like PSU. Upper level classes in fields like Anthropology, Geography, Art History, Physics, Astronomy, Philosophy, Forest Sciences, History, and on and on....all have small class sizes. Physics 211 may have several hundred students, but a 400 level Physics class will be far smaller.
  • bodanglesbodangles Registered User Posts: 7,843 Senior Member
    I took an intermediate level Spanish class with about 5 other students. It sucked -- the prof had to call on everyone a lot. :P
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 61,528 Senior Member
    mom2and wrote:
    Does PennState and other large Us count recitation sessions as classes when looking at class size? It is hard to believe that Penn State runs courses with less than10 students.

    Junior/senior level elective courses that are esoteric or require advanced prerequisites are often quite small.

    Granted, because small classes are small, the percentage of students enrolled in small classes is much smaller than the percentage of classes that are small.

    Students in popular majors who only take the core courses and the most popular electives for their majors (and the most popular courses for general education requirements) may see very few, if any, small classes.
  • Gator88NEGator88NE Registered User Posts: 5,352 Senior Member
    ^^^ Class size, is one of the advantages of taking a road (major) less traveled...especially at a large comprehensive public university.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 61,528 Senior Member
    Some examples of PSU UP courses with 10 or fewer students for fall 2017:

    Chinese 455
    English 468
    Hebrew 1, 151, 402
    History 485
    Kinesiology 488
    Latin 403
    Linguistics 493
    Mining 230
    Philosophy 403
    Plant 426
    Portuguese 3
    Soil Science 420
    Theatre 410

    Some with 20 or fewer:

    African American Studies 410, 469
    Astronomy 485
    Entomology 410
    Forestry 475
    Math 403H
    Nuclear Engineering 408, 441
    Physics 411
    Political Science 462
    Psychology 482
    Sociology 423, 428
  • cobratcobrat Registered User Posts: 12,277 Senior Member
    edited July 1
    @ucbalumnus

    The above with the exception of a couple of lower-level foreign languages which seem to not be as popular isn't a surprise considering they're all upper-level courses which have prereqs which seriously limits who could take the course in question.

    One major difference between a smaller private U or LAC environment is how even lower-level courses even in popular majors could have 20 or fewer students.

    For instance, my first-year Chinese language course only had 9 people...and it was one of the more popular languages in the college. As for the smallest class I ever took other than some private readings....a 400-level seminar with only one other classmate in one of their heaviest subscribed departments. .
  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan Registered User Posts: 9,999 Senior Member
    @cobrat: On the other hand, the vast majority of LACs won't even offer Portuguese and Hebrew.

    It's all about trade-offs.
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