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Columbia settles with Nungesser

Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 Registered User Posts: 1,956 Senior Member
http://columbiaspectator.com/main/2017/07/13/columbia-settles-nungesser-title-ix-lawsuit/

Although the terms were nto disclosed (as is normal) it is interesting that Columbia's statement appears to be conciliatory and apologetic. That was very likely part of the negotiation, as assumedly was Columbia's promise to reform its policies.
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Replies to: Columbia settles with Nungesser

  • momofthreeboysmomofthreeboys Registered User Posts: 14,891 Senior Member
    I just read that this morning. They definitely owed that kid an apology. I think Columbia saw the writing on the wall as far as where the legal system was headed.
  • Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 Registered User Posts: 1,956 Senior Member
    ^ I think the 2nd Circuit decision from a couple months ago was a pretty clear sign they would not get out before discovery at least, yeah. And as always, none of these schools want to go through the discovery process.
  • Gator88NEGator88NE Registered User Posts: 5,232 Senior Member
    Janet Halley, a professor at Harvard Law School who has been among the critics of that university’s sexual misconduct procedures, said she was not sure what to think of Columbia’s promise to review its policies.

    “I can’t tell from this statement whether they’re promising to suppress the speech of someone like Emma Sulkowicz,” she said. “If they’re saying that they would gag her, then this is an ominous statement.”

    But Ms. Halley said she thought Columbia had erred in not distancing itself from Ms. Sulkowicz’s project and that the university should not have allowed her to carry the mattress at graduation. By doing so, she said, “they explicitly adopted the speech as their own, because the commencement is the utterance, is the speech, of the university itself.

    “In those two ways, I think the university very significantly failed in its role, and I regard this announcement as a confession that it thinks that that’s the case,” she said.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/14/nyregion/columbia-settles-with-student-cast-as-a-rapist-in-mattress-art-project.html
  • Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 Registered User Posts: 1,956 Senior Member
    ^Yep, on all counts.
  • sgopal2sgopal2 Registered User Posts: 2,621 Senior Member
    This is a classic 'he said' vs 'she said' story. I haven't read through all of the court filings, but it looks like there was enough evidence to cast doubt on the rape charges.

    However this brought up something else. What is the best way to teach college students about consensual sex? How best should this be documented?
  • bestmom888bestmom888 Registered User Posts: 47 Junior Member
    "What is the best way to teach college students about consensual sex? How best should this be documented?"

    I wonder the same thing. A few years ago there was a college (or HS?) that was teaching students to ask for consent at each step during the make out stage and even during the act itself. People laughed at it, but this case seems to give it credibility. From what I read, apparently they were having consensual sex. The disagreement came when, in the middle of the act, he proceeded to anal sex and she said that she did not consent to that or that he didn't stop when she told him to.

    And I am thinking about that trilogy "50 shade of grey" where the guy had the girl sign a contract before they engaged in sex that deviated from the missionary position. Maybe that's the solution!!
  • cobratcobrat Registered User Posts: 11,902 Senior Member
    I wonder the same thing. A few years ago there was a college (or HS?) that was teaching students to ask for consent at each step during the make out stage and even during the act itself. People laughed at it, but this case seems to give it credibility.

    The college you're likely thinking of was Antioch College and it was implemented more than 2 decades ago(1992 as far as I remember). And those policies were widely ridiculed in the mass media press from that period when I read about it as a young HS student.
  • bestmom888bestmom888 Registered User Posts: 47 Junior Member
    2 decades ago!! Not possible! I wasn't even born then :))
  • cobratcobrat Registered User Posts: 11,902 Senior Member
    edited July 16
    ^ ^

    A link from an Antioch student writing to refute critics of the policy from 1993:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/20/opinion/l-antioch-s-policy-on-sex-is-humanizing-150393.html

    And a retrospective 2+ decades later:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/how-antioch-college-got-rape-right-20-years-ago
  • younghossyounghoss Registered User Posts: 2,970 Senior Member
    I am just guessing here, but I read the article linked by the OP, then re-read the posting in post 3.
    Again, I say this is my interpretation, but what I believe the U means that they will "review its policies" is that if a person is found not guilty as this fellow was, then the accuser cannot continue to go around still accusing.
    In that sense, Ms. Halley is correct that in the future someone like Ms. Sulkowics might have her speech limited.

    But isn't that the way speech is supposed to be limited? If a guy has his first-ever court appearance for shoplifting, and is guilty then he can rightly be called a thief. But if he's found not guilty, then anyone calling him a thief could be subject to libel or slander laws. In that sense, their speech could be limited, but its as a result of his rights since he was acquitted.
  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 1,243 Senior Member
    @collegedad13
    Why didn't he sue Ms. Sulkowics?

    Because litigation is expensive and it's highly doubtful Ms. Sulkowics has enough assets to be worth suing.
  • bestmom888bestmom888 Registered User Posts: 47 Junior Member
    @collegedad13 I don't see anyone "victim blaming". People are saying that Columbia should stand by it's own rulings and consider Mr. N exonerated, not guilty. By letting Ms. S carry her mattress to commencement, they are implicitly taking her side --which is that he is guilty. Therefore Mr. N deserves an apology from Columbia.
    Also Ms. S is not a "victim" technically because Mr.N was found not guilty. She is the accuser.
  • simba9simba9 Registered User Posts: 2,389 Senior Member
    I've always thought these should be matters for law enforcement only.
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