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Overenrolled Colleges

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Replies to: Overenrolled Colleges

  • ScipioScipio Super Moderator Posts: 8,421 Super Moderator
    @youcee That aligns with my observation here as well. I have not seen any increase of kids in our area choosing other UCs or other schools over Berkeley. It appears to be as popular and highly sought after as ever.

    Perhaps part of the reason is that being a hot-spot of political protest has long been embedded in Berkeley's DNA. No one is shocked by it. It may be even be expected. When you check the Berkeley box on your UC app, thoughts that the campus might at some point be the scene of a protest of one kind or another have already been "baked-in" to the decision making equation.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 60,928 Senior Member
    edited August 9
    Also, the fight between the alt-right and black-mask groups was not about school policies and practices that affect students who are not involved in them.

    In contrast, there was significant discontent at Missouri about school policies in various areas, such as the graduate student health insurance issue, the resignation of the system president over various issues, the actions of a communications faculty member, and the dismissal of said faculty member, that were exposed and publicized during news coverage of the protests. I.e. the events there give the impression that there are significant problems with the school itself that could affect all students, rather than few incidents of rival alt-right and black-mask groups fighting each other.
  • VANDEMORY1342VANDEMORY1342 Registered User Posts: 500 Member
    @Scipio I agree no bad PR will hurt UCB, however it won't help them keep pace with UCLA's popularity. UCLA's stats are higher than UCB's for the first time.
  • gclsportsgclsports Registered User Posts: 150 Junior Member
    A few of you have mentioned that Cal Poly is overenrolled. Knowing that, it's funny to me that S18 is getting emails from that school encouraging him to apply. We live in the Midwest and S has never expressed an interest in any California school.
  • twicemamatwicemama Registered User Posts: 95 Junior Member
    @youcee RE: UCB: From what I heard, every kid from a local central CA high school was accepted from the waitlist this year with most kids accepting. Not sure why they were underenrolled to begin with, but I am sure they are filling their seats from the waitlist.
  • twicemamatwicemama Registered User Posts: 95 Junior Member
    @gclsports OOS kids at Calpoly or UCs pay full OOS tuition... they get more $ per student and are willing to take XX number of OOS to help support their programs.
  • twicemamatwicemama Registered User Posts: 95 Junior Member
    The other thing I will mention about UCs is that their enrollment is growing due to their automatic transfer programs for in state students coming from CCs. While frosh classes certainly seem to be overenrolled this year at many schools, some of UCs higher numbers are coming from transfers, and some (if not all) UCs guarantee housing for first year transfer students.
  • exlibris97exlibris97 Registered User Posts: 708 Member
    edited August 11
    @Scipio Agree 100% regarding Berkeley. Many students are attracted by its activism and the recent controversy has made it even more well known. Berkeley is a place that you expect controversy and protest. Kids I have worked with have found this a selling point.

    @VANDEMORY1342 UCLA stat's are higher but UCB is far better known internationally. Its grad programs are also world class. UCLA is much like NYU in that respect.
  • gclsportsgclsports Registered User Posts: 150 Junior Member
    @twicemama I know certain state public university systems use that strategy and so I figured that was behind the mailing from CalPoly. But even if we could afford full pay OOS (and we can't), we would never consider doing that if we felt like the school targeted my kid based solely on the school's perception that we could afford full pay. That's what the CalPoly mailing felt like, given that it was so random, and knowing that they are overenrolled. It seemed to be saying, "Hey, yeah, we know we're overenrolled and will likely have a hard time accommodating the students we already have. But please, random student from out of state who's never shown any interest in us, apply! We need you to subsidize everyone else's education." Others may not, but I personally would feel very used being full pay under those circumstances.
  • hebegebehebegebe Registered User Posts: 1,642 Senior Member
    edited August 11
    The top 1% by wealth own about half the stock and mutual fund shares, and the next 9% own another 41%, leaving only 9% of this wealth in the hands of 90% of the population
    This is not completely true.

    Considerable stock is owned by pension funds, helping fund the retirement of tens of millions of employees, most of whom belong to unions. And this is even though most pension fund assets are now invested in bonds.

    Not that this helps in paying immediately upcoming college bills.
  • cobratcobrat Registered User Posts: 12,091 Senior Member
    @VANDEMORY1342 UCLA stat's are higher but UCB is far better known internationally. Its grad programs are also world class. UCLA is much like NYU in that respect.

    Actually, UCLA is as well known as UCB internationally.

    Just that UCB is considered elite because most of its academic departments across the full academic spectrum are peers of their Ivy/peer elite counterparts or leave them in the dust(I.e. Engineering/CS) whereas UCLA's academics up until recently were considered respectable, but not quite on UCB's elite level.

    Also, unless you're talking a few notable academic gems*, equating UCLA with NYU is IMO doing UCLA's past and present overall international rep a serious injustice.

    Based on what I've heard from international students...especially from those who were undergrad/grad students 2+ decades ago...NYU with the exception of the academic gems would have been considered a steep step down compared to UCLA unless one was studying Applied Math, Business, or performing arts.

    * Stern School of Business, Tisch School of the Arts, Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences(Notably Applied Math).
  • GatormamaGatormama Registered User Posts: 440 Member
    Flight to perceived value is also my bet on the cause of the overenrollment. I'm middle class, with zero stock accumulation beyond a pathetic 401(k) that we've raided too much already, and there will be no full-pay option in my household, and I'll be damned if I'll pay $70k a year for a twee LAC with a rock-climbing wall but few majors and a 40% graduation rate. I'm also in PA, where paying for a spot anywhere in the state system is a financial albatross on all middle-class families. People are now researching cars and dishwashers with laser focus; I suspect the same devotion to research has opened many eyes to the downsides of some colleges.
  • ChoatieMomChoatieMom Registered User Posts: 3,396 Senior Member
    edited August 12
    ^^Graduated 1980 in Michigan to a 19% unemployment rate. Took my highest honors degree to the library, where I worked full time shelving books for a year. I was not an outlier.

    I graduated in 1980 from Michigan and was unaware until many years later that it was a bad time for employment. I didn't know a single person who didn't have a good/professional job upon graduation, although several took jobs out of state. I got hired into high-tech a week before graduation -- with a degree in English. I know this is anecdotal and am only posting because @garland's experience was so different from mine and highlights how far perception can be from reality. I have the same discord with the threads discussing worry over our children not being able to be as successful as we were. I've always assumed our son will do better than we have, but that remains to be seen.

    Anyway, on the subject the subject of overenrollment, there is a raging discussion on the (non-CC) service academy forum about the ethics and morality of academy appointees putting down deposits and holding on to acceptances from their "plan B" colleges until they get through summer basic training in the event of either a medical turnback or deciding that the military isn't for them. (Basic training ends in plenty of time to proceed with plan B if necessary.). Many of the posters there rage about how unethical this "insurance" is but don't seem to grasp the concept of yield management or the fact that so many colleges are over enrolled that a handful of potential cadets or midshipmen (or anyone else) notifying these colleges in late summer that they do not plan to matriculate is not only already accounted for but is a blessing to overenrolled schools. I've pointed that discussion here for some enlightenment, but those folks are a different breed.
  • cobratcobrat Registered User Posts: 12,091 Senior Member
    edited August 12
    Anyway, on the subject the subject of overenrollment, there is a raging discussion on the (non-CC) service academy forum about the ethics and morality of academy appointees putting down deposits and holding on to acceptances from their "plan B" colleges until they get through summer basic training in the event of either a medical turnback or deciding that the military isn't for them. (Basic training ends in plenty of time to proceed with plan B if necessary.). Many of the posters there rage about how unethical this "insurance" is but don't seem to grasp the concept of yield management or the fact that so many colleges are over enrolled that a handful of potential cadets or midshipmen (or anyone else) notifying these colleges in late summer that they do not plan to matriculate is not only already accounted for but is a blessing to overenrolled schools. I've pointed that discussion here for some enlightenment, but those folks are a different breed.

    The idea with such Academy alums and some like-minded sympathizers is that one should only apply and matriculate into a service academy only if one is fully committed to a full career(20+ years) as a commissioned officer in the armed forces. They don't seem to account for/care that most service academy graduates never make it that far due to the "up-or out" promotional policies which effectively forces many officers to leave before they reach 20 nor do they account for the fact some may end up being RIFed alongside their reserve officer counterparts from ROTC/OCS.

    Not surprisingly, they also don't look too kindly among academy students who transfer out after one or two years like an older cousin did when he decided the military wasn't for him and he opted for the greater academic challenges from Caltech or academy graduates who leave the military right after their active-duty obligation runs out(a.k.a. "Five and dive", "punching out after 5", etc) .

    More ironic is how some of those academy alums who are contemptuous of academy students who leave before they are on the hook for the 5 year military commitment(before the first day of one's third year) or those who leave after 5 years of active-duty service or otherwise before serving 20+ years are themselves folks who did the same for voluntary and not-so-voluntary reasons(i.e. failed to be promoted after 2 sessions with the promotion board or RIFed during military drawdowns).

    More interestingly, they don't seem to have the same degree of scorn for academy cadets who are forced out due to poor academic or military performance during training which is also graded. Seems their reasoning is that it's worse to voluntary leave than it is to be forced out.

    Incidentally, I knew of two former Academy cadets(West Point) who dropped out in the middle/not too long after summer training known as "Beast Barracks". Both found that the 24/7 military environment wasn't what they wanted from their undergrad years.
  • ChoatieMomChoatieMom Registered User Posts: 3,396 Senior Member
    Oddly, the bone of ethics contention on that forum is that by holding onto the civilian spot, some other kid did not get an acceptance. No one there seems to understand that many more offers of admission were made than a school had room for and that the kid they are worried about did not even make the bloated cutoff. There is no next-in-line applicant who is hurt by planned-for attrition/non-matriculation at these mostly overenrolled schools. Never mind the potential to come off a waitlist at a non-overenrolled school.

    There is no rancor on the SA forum for kids who leave academies at the halfway point (our son will be taking that oath in two weeks before his junior year begins) or who five-and-fly. It is well understood that the military is not for everyone, and the academies plan on that and prefer that cadets/mids figure that out before further investment is made. Our son says the cadets at West Point have been briefed about this and encouraged to spend this summer thinking hard about this point-of-no-return decision. Historically, West Point counts on 50-75 cadets separating on Oath Night. They also plan on post-commitment attrition as the armed forces cannot keep or provide a long-term promotion path for every officer they commission; they absolutely count on the the five-and-fly. They have already determined that five years is sufficient payback for the education received; no hard feelings on either side when officers choose to leave. Like Doritos, they'll make more (if they need them).
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