Qualified, but cut, what now?

[marite]

Sybbie:

I'm so glad you brought back some of Frecklybeckly's posts. She's been one of my favorite student posters: a spunky, generous, talented and modest young woman. It's great to recall how her initial disappointment gave way to the feeling that UMich was a great place where she could and would thrive. And I won't forget her gorgeous singing which she shared with CC!

[ellemenope]

EK is a shameless Reed booster!

The fact is, it is not uncommon for many smart kids go to their state U for their undergraduate degrees and save going to an Ivy & their ilk for their graduate studies/professional degrees. Graduating near the top of your class at a big university, taking advantage of research opportunities available and getting to know professors who can wax eloquent on your many virtues will make for a successful grad school campaign.

It may be hard to get your S motivated--after all, he's already worked hard for 4 years for "nothing" in return. Why work hard for another 4 years with the prospect of going through another application derby and ending up without the coveted Ivy league acceptance?

There is a prevalent notion among the kids that one needs to have his or her hard work/intelligence "validated" by attendance at an Ivy/MIT/Stanford/Chicago type institution, etc. It's not like we're slabs of beef that are marked prime or choice or whatever.

There will be plenty of challenge going to U of M honors and doing well. The public universities are not wholly populated by dullards, contrary to the belief of many kids. I think your son may be surprised at the quality of kids that he spends a lot of time with--especially since he will be a physics major.

[Northstarmom]

"Did somebody point the OP to Andi's thread from last year? Did anyone suggest taking a gap year and reapplying to the reach schools? It can be done."

I don't recommend that this young man take a gap year and then reapply. Why? There's no evidence from what he posted that he did very much to research colleges and to do outstanding applications, including dedicated studying to get the best SAT IIs. Seems to me that he was riding on his impressive intelligence and good grades, and then assumed he'd get into an Ivy.

Right now, from what she has posted, sounds like as recently as when she first posted, he was saying he was so discouraged about the option that his actions resulted in that he wasn't feeling motivated enough to study. That doesn't sound like someone who'd flourish in an Ivy atmosphere because the students there are very self motivated by the love of learning, not by the idea of getting some kind of reward because of good grades. Indeed, students who work for the grades are the type of high achievers that the Ivies try to avoid accepting. They may do wonderfully fine in life just as the self-motivated high achievers do, but the Ivy atmosphere isn't a good match for them because there really is no prize to compete for. People tend to do their own intellectual and EC thing for the pure pleasure of doing so.

Anyway, my thoughts are that if the OP's son goes to Minn. and doesn't like it, the OP should let him make the decision to transfer, and handle all of the work about doing so.That could include using the wonderful resources at CC, which he is perfectly capable of doing.

It's not the OP's fault that her son has a college option that he doesn't like. It's not her problem to solve. If he goes to the U and doesn't like it and wants something better, it will be up to him to do the hard work to get excellent grades, EC and recommendations so he can transfer to a place that he has taken the time to research so he knows that it's a good match.

[ellemenope]

Re doing things differently with the next child:

I agree with the poster who said that a common mistake that many make is to apply to super-selective schools with the public big U that you don't want to go to as the safety school. You just won't be happy if all of the super-selective schools don't accept you (it happens with greater frequency than you'd like to believe)...and a safety school isn't a safety school if you don't want to go there.

I think the curmudgeon "Bottoms Up" approach is the one OP should use for the next kid. (I've copied this from a post on another thread).

"Building a list from the bottom up means to start with a school or schools where your child can get in and be happy, reach their goals, and you can afford it. Find that school first and the rest is gravy.

Once we found those schools , the stress level at my house went to dang near nill. Everything else was just trading up for greater fit as far as more accomplished classmates, greater research opps, prettier campus, more affordable, etc.

It worked for us and allowed her at the end the freedom to apply to some reaches that she wouldn't have dared to apply to at the beginning. That freedom, I think, led to essays and interviews that were unstressed and open- lively and entertaining and incredibly personal and revealing.

I believe the freedom gained from the bottom up approach made all the difference in the world. "

[2boysima]

Agree that Sybbie719's post #134 is a set of the thread's on CC that are most helpful...especially to a new visitor.

[sjmom2329]

If Sybbie ever writes a book about college admissions, I'll buy it for everyone I know!

[dadtimesthree]

My 2 cents.

It's perfectly reasonable for a kid to feel some disappointment that he/she didn't reach a goal. The OPs son has done very well to date, seemingly has a bright future, and wishes things had worked out at the ivies or comparable institutions. But, the idea that he will now lose motivation, cease to work hard, and throw away that bright future because he is "only" a scholaraship recipiant at the University of Minnesota--a school which makes every list of Top 100 national universities in existence--strikes me as an extreme overreaction, whether on his part or, as could be the case, on the part of the OP. If it's his reaction, it will likely pass in a few weeks as he gets into the flow of the U. If it's the parents' reaction, well, I have a very hard time with that. He's going to a terrific place, and your parenting doesn't need to be validated by an ivy admission.

I really don't mean to be flip, but the words of an old Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young song seem to apply here. "Don't be angry. Don't be sad. Don't sit cryin' for good time you had. There's a girl right next to you. And she's waiting for something to do...Turn your heartache into joy. She's a girl and you're a boy...And if you can't be with the one you love honey, love the one you're with.

[peege04]

"That doesn't sound like someone who'd flourish in an Ivy atmosphere because the students there are very self motivated by the love of learning, not by the idea of getting some kind of reward because of good grades."

I agree with this and it's one reason that we, as parents, were not keen on the ivy idea for our son. It needs repeating, I guess, that this was his idea, not ours. As a mom, I kept trying to tell him that it was more important to find out what he was really curious about. Curious enough that he'd want to set aside recreational things, just to follow that curiousity. I don't know if he's discovered that yet, but I hope he does. Personally, I think that's way more important than what school you go to or whether you go to school at all.

I think it will work out well for our son at the U of Minnesota. For us as parents, it's really great: cheaper, great education, no travel hassels, etc. I've shared with him some of the posts that pointed out some of the research opportunities he may have.

All said though, I do empathize with my son's disappointment. We really didn't have a clue that our son was so bright until he received the National Merit Scholarship award. When you realize that millions of kids compete for this award and your child is one of only 2500 who receive it, you kind of think, OMG he is bright.

When we got the letter, I didn't even realize how exclusive this award is and just tossed it aside in a pile of papers. Later it dawned on me that maybe the deadline for responding was approaching and I picked it up to review. Shocked that the deadline was that day, I phoned NMSC and said I hadn't replied because my son wasn't accepted to the preferred school and then she started to tell me what a huge honor this was and I had to quickly scramble to fax in the acceptance. True story.

So when your child is placed in that kind of a grouping, you do start to feel that they probably are pretty "deserving."

Some of the links here have been very helpful. There are lots of "derserving" kids thriving in many places and it's great to focus on that.

[helpingmom]

Re U of MN: the Gourman report ranks it 23rd for its undergrad physics program. I'm curious why the OP thinks the program is weak (because I also have a son interested in physics and is considering applying to MN).

[curmudgeon]

I agree with the other posters. sybbie, great job.

Whenever we dredge up an archive I have a little quiver that maybe I said something even dumber than usual. Thank goodness I found this one as my main contribution to one of sybbie's featured threads. I believe it is apropos here.

Originally Posted by pre-admissions ME

She really has trouble picturing herself at the "reach" schools on her list. Her favorites when she was a 1470 are still her favorites as a 35. Consequently, ol' dad is having to push to get her to augment her list with some well known reaches (well known on CC) just in case she wants to choose one in the spring.

Maybe I have the different side of this coin. Maybe mine loves her well researched and visited safeties too much for me to be comfortable. I just don't know if she is giving the reaches a fair shot. Weird, huh?

Maybe I went way , way overboard on the beauty of statistical safeties that were matches in every other way and this is my reward.

Funny. The chiclet stayed that same way even after the acceptances to the reaches .(Of course the cash helped.)

Build it from the bottom up. Set realistic admissions and financial safeties at schools she can see herself attending that meet her needs both immediate and longterm (in her case, a critical mass of smart kids who were enthused about learning that she could push and be pushed by, and great grad and med school results). Then ratchet it up a notch or three in student accomplishment, location, reputation, research opps, study abroad, whatever. After that, let go as many flyers as you like . If the kid has fully bought into the system , it is truly nothing but gravy.

[peege04]

to helping mom: I really don't know where we got the idea that the U of M was weaker in Physics. One of the things I was looking for was some better tool for evaluating schools by major, so I'm grateful to know that Gourman has a pretty high rating for them. The U is consistently in the top tier for Chemical Engineering, I did know that.

[helpingmom]

peegeo4: I am definitely NOT an expert, but I've been researching trying to find a good fit for my son. If you haven't looked at it, the American Institute of Physics has a very informative website. This link gives a roster of all undergrad physics depts in the US:http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends...s/physrost.pdf

Our guidance counselor gave us a list of the Gourman report rankings for undergrad physics. They were:

The following is a list of schools that have been ranked (in order
1-35) in Physics:
California Institute of Technology
Harvard and Radcliffe College
Cornell University
Princeton University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
University of California - Berkeley
Stanford University
University of Chicago
University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign
Columbia University
Yale University
Georgia Institute of Technology
University of California - San Diego
University of California - Los Angeles
University of Pennsylvania
University of Wisconsin - Madison
University of Washington
University of Michigan - Ann Arbor
University of Maryland - College Park
University of California - Santa Barbara
University of Texas - Austin
Carnegie Mellon University
University of Minnesota
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Brown University
Johns Hopkins University
Michigan State University
University of Notre Dame
State University of New York at Stony Brook
Case Western Reserve University
Northwestern University
University of Rochester
University of Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania State University - University Park
University of Colorado - Boulder

Of course, rankings are not everything, but using some of these resources
has been helping our search.

[DRJ4]

Originally Posted by Peete04

As a mom, I kept trying to tell him that it was more important to find out what he was really curious about. Curious enough that he'd want to set aside recreational things, just to follow that curiousity. I don't know if he's discovered that yet, but I hope he does.

We had the same concerns for our son until his freshman year of college, when he took an amazing class (in the honors program at his large state university) taught by a graduate professor with a passion for his work. Our son spent the first weeks of that class bemoaning the heavy workload. He finally accepted that he was going to have to work very hard and begrudgingly pitched in. By mid-semester, he was going to the library to do "a little" extra research, beyond what had been assigned, and visiting the professor during office hours to ask more questions. Ultimately, the only thing he regretted about the class was that it ended.

I don't know whether our son will ultimately end up in a career related to that first course but I think he might. I do know he developed a passion for learning - as opposed to making good grades - that will make a difference for the rest of his life.

[peege04]

Thanks helping mom for the info. Our guidance department had nothing like that and I did ask a few times. Had I known, I might have encouraged an app to the University of Illinois too.

[Packers1]

Don't forget UW Madison. They have a top physics program and a reciprical tuition agreement with MN.

We are in the opposite boat where I have a S who has the grades, scores and ECs for an Ivy as a reach, but he doesn't want to apply to them. Wants to stay in the midwest and doesn't like Northwestern as an option. Looking at his list I think that he has several matches, so I think things will be fine. It's his decision to make, not mine.