Qualified, but cut, what now?

[peege04]

UW Madison is a great option. My nephew and his wife are PhDs doing research there and I love the campus. My son wouldn't consider it because he didn't like some of the people from his H.S. who were going there. Silly, considering the size of the place, but at 18 they know it all.

[avwh]

As a Univ. of Illinois alum, I can tell you all their engineering programs are very highly ranked (and especially civil engineering, my undergrad major), and most of the sciences are, as well.

Peege, no disrespect intended, but I wouldn't DREAM of relying on our HS's GCs for things like college rankings, or detailed help with the appplication process. Although our school does keep a research libarary that probably has many of those rankings in it for the non-internet-savvy parent.

The internet, OTOH, puts almost all these published rankings and a lot of other research and forums like this at our fingertips. It's a shame you (or your son) didn't discover these resources sooner. Still - all this is equivalent to figuring out how to secure the barndoor after the horses have all escaped.

[menloparkmom]

I second the recommendation that sybbies post #134 be titled "CC Wisdom Gained From the Trenches" and be used as a permanent sticky on the main CC page. This should be "required reading" for all who come to CC looking for college advice. Great job sybbie!

[emeraldkity4]

well of course I am going to be a Reed booster ( but I also did put in several good words for other MInn schools, including UMinn to be fair)

I didn't attend a 4 yr college- neither did my husband.
THe process was brand new to me & we expected and got, little help from her school advisior. Her school was really too small to have college center/offical counselor/career center etc.
Reed was the only private school my D applied to, and the one I know the most about. I did the research myself.
I didn't even know enough to ask at her school, I just figured we would have to figure it out ourselves.

And frankly, that is what is irritating me most about this thread, not just that the student thinks he is a big fish in a little pond, and that the most competitve schools in the country are just waiting for him to walk through the door, he is young, and has a skewed perspective.

BUt counselors, at least in most schools, have a hella lot more to do than to find good fits for their most talented students. They may have a student who is being abused, and trying to get her in a safe place, or a student who should attend college, but the parents are against it.
If the college process is being left up to the student- then the consequences of that- are going to be experienced. Thats the way that life works, you make decisions and you live with them

I am a big believer in do it yourself.
I research medical treatments and care- and ask questions- The doctor has the diploma, but how much can they do in 8 minutes a visit?
A college counselor is not going to live with the college choices of the high school students, the people who have the most to lose ( or gain) from the experience, are the ones who have the most invested, and should be the most motivated to research schools.

It isnt like it is hard.
Libraries- a ton of books being published every year, and ever heard of the internets?

If I - a high school dropout could find " one of the NEW ivies" ( rofl) for my daughter to attend, couldn't parents who are themselves college educated learn how to point and click as well?

[Packers1]

I hear you about not going to a school because they don't like someone who is going there. I tried to explain to my son that I had two cousins at Madison the same time I was there and unless we made a date we never saw each other.
Such is the advantage (or disadvantage) of a BIG campus.

I'm sure that your son will like UM; it is a good school. My sister-in-law and her husband just transfered onto the faculty there and they say that it has a very good academic culture.

[Northstarmom]

"If I - a high school dropout could find " one of the NEW ivies" ( rofl) for my daughter to attend, couldn't parents who are themselves college educated learn how to point and click as well?"

I don't think it's fair to blame the parents. It's the S's life and future. Since he's smart enough to get into U Minn.'s honors college and to feel he had decent chances at an Ivy, he also is smart enough to have researched and handled the college application process better. It's not his parents' fault that he picked a safety that he doesn't like.

[emeraldkity4]

No it isn't- but repeated in this thread are complaints about information that they didn't have because the high school counseling office didn't give it to them.
If someone doesn't give you something and you need it- you either get it someplace else or shrug and say "oh well".

[menloparkmom]

and sometimes you don't know what you need! - especially if you are a 17 YEAR OLD KID, who has had no experience in applying to colleges!

[emeraldkity4]

right I agree that most 17 year olds are going to need help- with a lot of things
Obviously these parents are hands off- to not even know that their child was possibly eligible for NMS
But free information is out there, and even if you don't want to be a helicopter parents, there is a lot of room between second guessing your childs every decision, and totally staying out of the process.
After all, I assume the parents are paying for this? Why would you not research yourself something that is going to be a huge financial investment?

Yes, we probably should have encouraged him to do more in preparation for the SAT II or better yet, his guidance couselor should have told him this was more important

During the app process, I did try to get more involvement from our school guidance counselor, because I was very concerned that our son would not get into those top schools. My husband and I get the Wall Street Journal and have read for years about the high quality kids who don't get in, so we were prepared. I repeatedly asked for help identifying some schools that would fall in between the MITs of the world and the U of M and they never had a suggestion.

es, I think we are reticent in Minnesota to give our children all the latest advantages in terms of counseling and preparation that are very common on the coasts and Chicago. I still have some personal reservations about that being the way to behave.

Our public school had much more confidence than we had that our son would get into one of his choices and we were swayed by them

The counselors knew of our son's interests in his freshman year, yet they didn't tell him that he should plan on seeking an AP class outside of school.

We really didn't have a clue that our son was so bright until he received the National Merit Scholarship award.

Thanks helping mom for the info. Our guidance department had nothing like that and I did ask a few times. Had I known, I might have encouraged an app to the University of Illinois too.

[Marian]

"If someone doesn't give you something and you need it- you either get it someplace else or shrug and say "oh well"."

This works only if you know that the issue exists.

For example, in my daughter's school, the guidance department does not provide any information about SAT II tests to 9th and 10th grade parents, even though some of their kids might be in a good position to take some of these tests at the end of the school year. (For example, some 10th graders take AP U.S. History and would have a very good chance of getting high scores on the SAT II U.S. History test.) Because the GCs don't provide the information, only the kids from savvy families end up taking the test. The others never even inquire about it because they don't realize that the situation exists. They don't have the choice to search or shrug. They can only feel bad many months later when they realize that they missed an opportunity they did not know existed.

[MomofWildChild]

The National Merit Scholarship award is just based on the PSAT score (a few extra things are required for finalist application, I know). Yes, the finalists are bright, but there are many non-finalists who get into highly selective schools. National Merit isn't a very important thing to the highly selective schools, although it can be useful for scholarship money to less selective schools. Many kids don't prepare at all for PSAT and may greatly increase their relative scores by preparing for the SAT, which is what is important for college admission. Add grades, essays and recs to the mix and National Merit becomes a pretty minor thing. I don't mean to diminish this accomplishment, but want to point out to the OP that it should not be the basis for thinking a particular student is a likely admittee for a highly selective school.

[emeraldkity4]

"If someone doesn't give you something and you need it- you either get it someplace else or shrug and say "oh well"."

This works only if you know that the issue exists.

BUt that was my point
if you ask for something- as when the parent was asking for names of other choices of schools despite the counselors assurance that he didn't need any other names.
They didn't get anyother names- even though just the fact that they were asking, indicates to me, that they felt that was something that was needed.
I don't ask for something I don't need & if I do ask & I don't get it, I find another way.

I realize that this family has a different parenting style- being involved in the college process is "helicoptering" and the child had different ideas about his chances/goals than the parents did.

BUt for someone who is aware of the numbers of articles published over the years on college applications,but not be able to make their financial support. dependent on that their child has realistic choices .sounds odd

I just can't reconcile the fact of two college educated parents- relying on the counselors to find all the info for them.

During the app process, I did try to get more involvement from our school guidance counselor, because I was very concerned that our son would not get into those top schools. My husband and I get the Wall Street Journal and have read for years about the high quality kids who don't get in, so we were prepared. I repeatedly asked for help identifying some schools that would fall in between the MITs of the world and the U of M and they never had a suggestion.

[menloparkmom]

well, if they had not gone through the college application process recently, and were "hands off parents" as her posts seemed to indicate , then it could be hard to know if you need outside advice and then where to go to get that advice. I think my lucky stars I found CC, but I also had a college advisor for a client, and knew from her, years in advance, exactly how tough it had become for top kids to be accepted at "top" colleges. What I found at my son's school was that for parents who were not in the "how hard it is to get into college loop" because of their "anti-helicopter" mentality , their children suffered the same type of acceptance results .

[Marian]

As much as kids want and need independence at the age of 17 or so, I don't think they're really prepared to handle a situation as complex and error-prone as applying to colleges without the guidance of a knowledgeable adult.

In fact, their previous experiences may have misled them. When they made the transitions from elementary school to middle school and from middle school to high school, school personnel led them through all the necessary steps, and the possibility that they might end up with no school to go to did not exist. And when they took standardized tests in school, their teachers made sure they were prepared (because the school's neck is on the line, too). Now, all of a sudden, they're in a very different position where, for example, a school's chemistry curriculum might be a very poor match for the SAT II test in chemistry (to use a situation mentioned by the OP), and nobody at school seems to know or care, let alone advising students on how they might overcome this disadvantage.

[reeses414]

As I was reading this thread, one detail stuck out to me the most. The child is headed to a university and is feeling that he is better than his institution. (That is my interpretation of the issue.) That bothers me a lot as a reader and as an unbiased student from a different university. One has to be grateful for his/her blessings (instead of the disappointments) and take advantage of them in order to succeed at this level. (Many people who attend universities around the country are smart.) If he does this, I'm sure he'll be able to make great opportunities and like-minded friends. However, if he begins his freshman year moping around without motivation, he may have a tough time in and outside of the classroom. These problems would make the possibility of grad school (and maybe even a transfer) much more difficult. My best advice for him is to keep his head up and cherish what he does have instead of doesn't have. As the cliché goes, "Count your blessings."