Qualified, but cut, what now?

[suze]

I'll write from the perspective of a peer. I would have been very dissapointed too if I ended up at my State U after working like a dog in school for 12 years. I would especially be dissapointed to attend a school not strong in my area of interest. From what you tell us, he has the credentials for a better college. You have to wonder what went wrong if he applied to ivies, Chicago and Northwestern and didn't get into even one. Did something go wrong in the process? Did the school not know how to promote their students? Teachers not know how to write recs? What about a gap year and the help of a college counselor in reapplying? I'm taking a gap year although I did get into my first choice school, an ivy, as are several of my friends who got into top schools. What was the story on here last year where the kid was rejected by every school and then got into MIT the next year?

[emeraldkity4]

At almost every college except Harvard, there are many, many freshmen who would have preferred to be somewhere else.

I would expect even at a Harvard- its just the transition
we have to complain and moan about it
My daughter cried after spending a night in her dorm- she was scared to death about what was now expected of her.
As a first gen college student, having gotten into her academic/financial reach college- taht was a pretty high bar.
She got over it, but I also know that if she hadn't and went to the instate public college, she would have done fine there also.
It isn't about the workplace/the college, its about what you bring to the table.

[OpiefromMayberry]

"We were not at all manipulative about the process."

Maybe you should have been? Having dealt with very smart kids for many years (my own and others) they often aren't emotionally or socially near the level of their intelligence. A little guidance doesn't hurt. There is an incorrect assumption that intelligence is across the board with smart kids, rarely does that occur in nature.

Maybe you need to provide a little "tough love"? Yes, I am serious, what in reality is the problem? Any problem here is self-generated, nothing outside is causing it. So is there really a problem that can't be solved here?

I am sure you love your son, just as I love my kids. However, if this were mine, I would give him a swift kick in the backside at this point. With all the things going on in the world.... what does he have to be sad about? Let's see he's in the honors program, most if not all of his first 4 are paid for. At a certain point enough is enough.

Maybe I'm just grouchy today, but he should be jacked up about going to college and having the experience of his life. It may not be a time to nurture right now. Again sorry for my grumpy disposition.

[OpiefromMayberry]

"At almost every college except Harvard"

Pleeeeease.

[Northstarmom]

"From what you tell us, he has the credentials for a better college. You have to wonder what went wrong if he applied to ivies, Chicago and Northwestern and didn't get into even one. Did something go wrong in the process? "

I would know what was wrong if the student applied to those schools plus UMinn.: He had no match schools. Every one of the above schools is a reach except U Minn., and every one of those schools except the U have to turn down highly qualified students because of lack of space for all of the qualified students who apply.

[peege04]

cangel, xiggi, northstarmom, your comments are very helpful. Here's a question: assuming he stays at Uof M, and stays in Physics, can he still get into a top grad school for Physics? or because the U is weak in Physics, does that diminish his grad school opportunities? I know this is looking pretty far out, but he is a focused kid, so this is very likely.

[Marian]

Disappointment reaches up pretty far in the U.S. News rankings, Opie.

I went to Cornell, and there were plenty of people there who were extremely disappointed to have been rejected by even more prestigious colleges. They had chips on their shoulders so big that it was amazing they could maneuver through the doors of their dorm rooms. Most of these people were fine, though, by the end of the first semester (though many people believe that the local custom of throwing fish on the ice during the Cornell-Harvard hockey game traces back to the lingering disappointment of the Harvard rejects).

[Northstarmom]

peege,
He should contact the physics department and find out what happens to their majors after they graduate.

Since U of Minn. is a state flagship and a major research university, I would imagine that if he does well in physics there, he could go to a good grad school. If he's American, that's a plus, too, because due to the post Sept. 11 immigration restrictions, universities are desperate to find American graduate students in the hard sciences. I was talking yesterday about this to a physics professor at one of my state's top public universities.

When my younger S was considering physics, he also was told this by a physics prof at a second tier college that he was considering applying to as a safety. The professor told him that if my S did well, he'd not only be able to get into a good physics grad program, but he'd also be showered with money.

BTW, don't think that disappointment and second guessing is confined to students who aren't at Ivies. When I went to Harvard, first semester, virtually all of my friends wished we'd gone elsewhere. This included even wishing to have gone to third tier schools that we hadn't even applied to! It's normal for students to have buyer's remorse at first no matter where they've been accepted to. Most settle down and are happy by at least the middle of second semester, when they've made friends, learned the lay of the land, and have some fun ECs.

[alwaysamom]

peege, I understand how he might be disappointed but it's likely that the work ethic which you think may have disappeared, may, in fact, just be in hiding at this point. If the program he's interested in is not strong at UMinn, then I agree that he should work hard and plan to transfer. One thing that needs to be mentioned, though, is that from what you've told us, he did not do a good job at arriving at his list of schools this time last year to which he wanted to apply. A smart, successful student like him should have had many offers, and that didn't happen. It doesn't appear that he had any match schools on his list, which is a huge mistake. Now there's nothing you can do about THAT now, however, when compiling a list for tranfer, he's going to have to do a better job of finding realistic possibilities and not just reaches. Best of luck to him.

[cangel]

Ditto NSM's comments. I went to a 3rd tier college, and was in a very small major (one of 3 to graduate in my major, my year) - this can often be a very good situation, with lots of hands on teaching, personal advice, attention, etc. AND U of M is not some unknown 3rd tier school by any means! Some of the physics profs will be happy to talk to him and advise him about grad school, careers, etc. It may be to his advantage to be a big duck in a small pond, and if he needs more research opportunities, etc, those profs will important in helping him get to, say Caltech.

[marite]

Peege:

if your son is in the Honors program, chances are that he will be mentored by a prof or profs and be able to do research during the school year. For summer, your son should research internships. There are many for physics undergraduates (REUs), though perhaps not for the first year. This would give him a real boost for grad school.
Another thing: most physics majors need a strong math background. I believe that UMinn has a pretty good math department.

[peege04]

I also wanted to thank radionicist, 2mch2sn, Marian, Sybbie and Suze for their helpful comments. Although I know how rigorous the competition is, I do wonder as Suze pointed out, why he didn't get more acceptances. We did not hire a private advisor and the guidance counselors are way overworked at our H.S., but his counselor liked him and she thought he would have more choices too.

[JHS]

I think the basic message is to suck every last drop of juice out of Minnesota. If he does that, one of three things will happen: (1) he'll love it and get a great education and great relationships with faculty mentors and have wonderful grad school opportunities, (2) he'll exhaust his opportunities there and have a dynamite case to make for transfer to a place with a stronger program, and great relationships with faculty mentors who will support him in that, or (3) he won't love it, but he'll stay, graduate in three years, and be in a great position to apply to grad school (with faculty mentors, etc. . . .)

The key is to take advantage of what there is there -- and he will be in a great position to do that, because he is likely to stand out among his peers. No one -- no transfer school, no top grad school, no UMinn peers -- is going to want someone who sits in a corner whining about how he got cheated out of the opportunity he had "earned" to go to a fancier college. When he has truly exhausted the educational opportunities available to him at Minnesota, and shown that he is the sort of person who contributes actively to a university community, then other opportunities will open naturally for him. If not, probably not.

As someone else said, no college is a golden ticket, just a set of opportunities. He got the golden gopher ticket. He should use it.

[Northstarmom]

Peege,
It sounds to me like his counselor overestimated his chances. THis was the most competitive year ever for college admissions in this country. The amazing numbers of highly qualified students applying for the limited number of places at the top universities can be hard for parents, students and counselors to fathom. And the next few years will be even worse.

One needn't hire private counselors to up one's odds in the admissions process, but people who do research on admissions -- coming to sites like CC, getting the guidebooks, using things like the US News college site -- are more likely to do the things that will make their applications stand out more in a competitive field.

These include things like:" rewriting one's essay several times; making sure that one's ECs are explained well on the application; providing recommenders well in advance of deadlines with a memo detailing one's accomplishments in their classes and activities they advise; bringing a resume and/or activity sheet to interviews; and coming prepared to interviews with questions to ask about the school that are not answered on its web site, etc. In addition, it's important to do careful applications to realistic match schools that one would love to attend.

[tokenadult]

I'm in Minnesota. I am a graduate of U of MN Twin Cities (CLA). You can private message me if you like for more comments, which I hope will be helpful and reassuring.

Publicly, what I'll say is that if the Ivy League school felt to him like the prize, then maybe the Ivy League admission officers thought he was a bad fit--because they are not looking for students who think they have arrived by getting into the Ivy League. That's my hypothesis about the admission results.

As for what he can do now, he still has a lot of great possibilities in hand. For one thing, ratings of physics programs are sufficiently debatable that he will not have limited opportunities to be a world-class physicist if he does well in the U of MN Honors Program. (I have interviewed for information about the program at the IT Honors office with my son, and I am quite well impressed with what they do for physics students in the honors track.) All he has to do is get focused, turn on his curiosity, work hard, and he will still have a good set of choices for graduate school. And if his interests change a little and he gets excited about chemical engineering, for example, he is at a top school for that.

But definitely the beginning of freshman year is not the time to lose hope and give up. He has a lot of great possibilities ahead of him and will meet some fine classmates who can form a great career network for him.

More by private message, if you like.