Qualified, but cut, what now?

[peege04]

What is a "match" school? Oh another thing that was probably a negative was our school has no AP science classes and to get into the schools he wanted most: Caltech, MIT, Columbia, U Chicago, Stanford, you had to take a SAT II in science. He took the chem and was 68%, which looks bad until you realize half the test was organic chemistry and his high school chem class covered no organic chemistry. In contrast, he was 92% on the US history SAT II which he took as a sophmore after AP U. S. History. Too bad he didn't want to major in history (I suggested it).

[mathmom]

"He doesn't like the emphasis on sports etc. Wanted a more focused on academics environment. Want to major in Physics and the U is a little weak in that area."

Then why in the world did he apply there?

If he really feels it's the wrong school for him, maybe he should take a year off and apply to schools he'll be happy attending.

[sjmom2329]

Peege04, we lived in MN for seven years, and I'm familiar with the U of M. As others have said, it's not exactly an unknown college. And the campus was very nice, from what I recall. My son is also a physics major, and we've been looking at his courses for the next three years, just to plan his schedule. My feeling is that for most majors, especially the physical sciences, there is a limited variety in coursework that students must take for the Bachelor's degree. By the time he takes all of the math, physics and general ed classes, it may not be all that different from the physics dept at another school.

If he wants to transfer after a year, or is interested in grad school, he needs to go into this first year determined to do well in his classes. Physics isn't an easy major at any school! And I think it's possible to attend grad school no matter where one completes the undergraduate work. If he's interested in transferring, both Macalester and St. Olaf have good physics departments, according to Rugg's Recommendations on the Colleges. My son has friends from elementary school who are at the U of M, and who seem to be very happy. I hope he gives it a chance.

[2boysima]

Minnesota Physics dept should have some info. on what its grads are doing -- where they've recently gone to grad school and/or where they're working. Maybe this info. will help dispel some concerns...or add to them.

If the grads are in good programs, I agree with the posters who suggest you encourage your son to do well, reap all of the Honors college benefits, and find a fantastic grad school experience. If the grads are not in good programs, then doing well with the hope of transfering may be an option. Also...does Minnesota still have a reciprocal agreement with Univ of Wisconsin? If the physics dept. at Wisconsin is better (I think it may be) could he have an easier time of transferring there? Still not like Univ of Chicago...but might be a better place for physics.

[suze]

Having come from a school with fabulous college counselors with small numbers of students to work with, I am a believer in strong counseling making a big difference. Many of my friends ended up with very different essays than they started with.

I did a search and found that "andison" will get you to the posts about the top student rejected from every college the first time around. Andi's son had much better success the second time, and I wonder if they engaged a counselor.

Because transferring into a top college is even harder than getting in as a freshman, I really wonder if your son has considered a year off. He has studied 2 languages and may want to study abroad, do relief work or something else he finds fun.

[JHS]

By the way, historically Chicago has taken a fair number of transfer students (because it "loses" more first years than most of its peers). That may not be true for this cohort, since Chicago mis-estimated its yield by over 100 students (and, I think, wound up not taking kids from the waitlist). But transferring to Chicago with a strong record at Minnesota is hardly out of the question. (Work on the essays, though.)

[Northstarmom]

"What is a "match" school? Oh another thing that was probably a negative was our school has no AP science classes and to get into the schools he wanted most: Caltech, MIT, Columbia, U Chicago, Stanford, you had to take a SAT II in science."

A match school is one in which your student's stats were at about the 75th percentile, and the overwhelming majority of students with similar stats to your S's would be accepted. For Midwestern students for whom U Minn. is a safety, and Harvard is a reach, U Wisconsin may be a match. Another possible match might have been St. Olaf. Grinnell, which also is known for strong sciences as is St. Olaf, may have been another potential match or a more realistic reach school depending on his stats.

His school's not offering AP classes may not have hurt him because the colleges judge students by how they took advantage of the coursework that was offered in their school. Some schools, particularly some top private schools, lack APs, but their regular classes are more rigorous than are most AP classes.

If he's serious about majoring in physics, he may be lucky that he didn't get into Ivies because he would have had to pass difficult physics classes which he'd have been taking with people who had taken AP physics and had very high SAT II scores in that field. He would have had a lot of catching up to do, and may have been so discouraged that he would have switched majors. At U Minn., he's likely to be one of the strongest physics students, and may get all sorts of mentoring, too.

[dad4son]

Peege, first I am sorry for your troubles, as we all love our children deeply and want to see them happy. Someone once told me that you are only as happy as your unhappiest child.

Having said that, I think you need to look in the mirror a bit and stop being an apologist for your son. His accomplishments are tremendous and he should look back be proud.

When you say things like your statement about no science AP classes being a reason for his low score on an SATII test, you really lose me. There are many (many, many) schools in the country that do not offer ANY AP classes or honors classes. And what do those high achieving students do when they need 2 or 3 SAT II's for admissions to certain schools? They purchase a study guide, prepare themselves independently and see how it goes.

Your son is obviously academically talented, so if he didn't do well on the SATII he simply didn't prepare well enough. Enough said, move on. I'm sure it was not the critical factor that precipitated the admissions decision anyway.

I am sorry to be harsh, but it seems like you and your son need a little tough love.

[sybbie719]

Here's a question: assuming he stays at Uof M, and stays in Physics, can he still get into a top grad school for Physics? or because the U is weak in Physics, does that diminish his grad school opportunities?

Grad school is a different ball of wax. He will be evaluated based on the following: GPA, GRE Scores and Research. This is where his going to the honors college is going to pay off because he will not have to fight to get research and internship opportunites on campus because they will come as part of his program. If he continues to do well, he will have given himself a great gift a free grad and undergrad education

If he is still interested in Chicago, the college will hold his application. He can contact the school to see what additional information he would need to submit as a transfer student.

[peege04]

Wow! I'm just really overwhelmed by the positive, supportive and perceptive comments I've been receiving. Why didn't I find this site sooner? I really feel our son will be okay. Thanks for the positive comments about the U of M. So, from what people are saying, the undergraduate physics training can't be too different at a school like the U of M versus an ivy, or am I overlooking something? or being too optimistic?

My husband went to Macalester and our son didn't even apply there. Despite Rugg's Recommendations, we think the U of M is much better for a science major than some of these small, albeit exclusive, liberal arts colleges. Are we wrong? The U has extensive labs, research facilities, research grants etc. How could the smaller liberal arts schools have anything better to offer in science than the U? We didn't think Mac, St.Olaf, Carleton were better choices for Physics, so he didn't apply to those places.

[tokenadult]

To the original poster (and to any other parents in Minnesota who have children applying to college in the next few years): A good channel for information about competitive college admission for Minnesota parents is the Minnesota Council for the Gifted and Talented (MCGT), which sponsors public information meetings called CHAT nights where parents get together and discuss issues of mutual concern. Some parents in town are Ivy grads or have other sources of information about competitive colleges. The MCGT information network for members covers a lot more points in a lot more detail than most high school counselors in town do. It happens that the first CHAT night of this school year (Thursday 5 October 2006, in Minneapolis) will be on the topic of high school and college choices for Minnesota parents. You are very welcome to attend.

[justaparent]

The top undergraduate students in Physics should be able to attend top Physics graduate schools. The "rankings" of university physics departments matter more to the PhD students and their prospects for jobs after graduation than for undergraduates (where the curriculum is more standarized and homogeneous). Job prospects for all but the best Physics PhDs are somewhat limited (but that's another story) - but with superior quantitative skills, a not-insignificant number enter the financial world and investment banking and do just fine, thank you.

[unbelievablem]

sadly, what seems to have happened here is that the op's son used the same application strategy that too many top students use -- apply to a bunch of dream schools that are reaches for just about everyone and then throw in the large state univ as a safety with the assumption that you'd never really end up having to go there. unfortunately, these days, with admissions as tough as they are even for the very best students, too many end up disappointed when that safety becomes their reality. hopefully those reading this who haven't gone through the process yet will learn from this, just as many learned from the postings about andison and appreciate the importance of choosing safeties that really would be good fits as well as realistic matches, not merely those dream reach schools. its tough - when you're the top kid at your school, gc's may drool about the great schools you can apply to -- but the truth is that there are just too many students like that throughout the country.

as for the op -- hearing that the problem was the colleges your son chose to apply to, doesn't help with the situation now. i think some of what you are hearing from some posters here is frustration because this type of story is all to common -- i'm just sorry you and your son didn't get to learn that before he made up his application list.

what your son needs to do is to really figure out how much of his current feeling is disappointment over what could have been and how much is really a matter of this school not being the right place for him. that isn't something that can be determined in a week or two, or possibly even a full semester. he needs to get involved as best he can - focus on NOW - do his best where he is now -- he can decide later whether that then allows him to make the most of where he is or allows him the greatest transfer opportunity.

perhaps it will help him to realize he is not the only one in this type of position. he needs time to deal with this.

[DRJ4]

I think I understand some of what your son feels. I was accepted at an Ivy years and years ago but I couldn't afford to go. I went to a state college instead. I was disappointed until school started, when I (finally) focused on how exciting it was to leave home for college. I'm sure I would have been just as happy at the Ivy, but I certainly have no regrets.

[MotherOfTwo]

I wish your son all the best at U of M and hope he has a great experience there. While the time is probably past for second-guessing your son's college application process, I would like to reinforce dad4son's comment above regarding the SAT IIs. My son also attended a large public high school where the honors chemistry and physics courses did not cover a huge chunk (~50%) of the material covered on the SAT IIs in those subjects. Very few students from our high school take the SAT IIs, and the school is not keyed into these tests nor geared to preparing the students for them. However, my son was applying to universities (some of the same ones mentioned by the OP) which required an SAT II in chemistry or physics. He used the readily available study guides to learn the necessary material and achieved an outstanding score on the Physics SAT II test. So it is very possible for an intelligent and motivated student to prepare for these tests on his or her own.