Qualified, but cut, what now?

[tokenadult]

Originally Posted by peege04

Still it is very curious and may help me with our younger child, or help others who are currently applying.

In that case, I particularly invite you to the local meeting about high school and college options in Minnesota on Thursday 5 October 2006 in Minneapolis. The local public high schools in Minnesota, alas, and even the local independent "prep" schools don't have an especially informed perspective on how to prepare young people for the most selective colleges. It's helpful for parents to build their own information networks to gain a broader, more accurate perspective.

[peege04]

Thanks unbelievablem for you list of resources.

[peege04]

Thanks tokenadult. Yes, I think we are reticent in Minnesota to give our children all the latest advantages in terms of counseling and preparation that are very common on the coasts and Chicago. I still have some personal reservations about that being the way to behave.

[emeraldkity4]

Emeraldkity, what LAC are you referring to? I know it's not any in Minnesota.

Oh sorry peege- I forget not everyone has been on CC for the last 5 years- and please call me EK ( the name comes from my hometown of Seattle- where local boosters have termed it the Emerald City )

Reed Reactor

[citygirlsmom]

my D is getting ready to apply... we have looked at some schools

what she has done is asked herself some questions, so that her safeties, match and reach schools are ALL places she can see herself at: (not in any particular order)

city, rural, suburban school- city
big, medium, small- can be medium or small if in a big city
greek or not greek- not a big greek social scene
big sports school or not- doesn't want a big sports school

do stats match up generally- she looks at hers and see where they fall in the range

academics- looking at particular programs- and while that is shifting somewhat, she doesn't want a school with "set" classes, she is going for a more ecletic mix of courses and her degree
grad school- do its kids get into good grad schools, she for sure wants to go on (lucky us)
student body- can she see herself in that group

weather- hates the heat, doesn't mind bad winters

dorms and food- not as important if in a good urban school

these are some of the questions an applicant needs to ask so that if they don't get in the # 1 choice, that any of the choices they could thrive at....as someone said why apply to a school you don't like

the best students get rejected all the tme, but the SMART ones, well, they make the most of what choices they do have

[lefthandofdog]

Maybe I just woke up cynical this morning, but this is the second thread I've read today that doesn't quite ring true (NSM tagged the other). How could a dad who graduated from Macalester not realize the opportunities that small LACs offer to undergrad science majors? There are so many questions posed by the OP that I have to wonder what they DID ask when it was crucial to be engaged in the process, not after the fact. ANd the question seems to have sequed from "how do I help my s. cope" to "how do I draw up a list for my younger child". You've been through the process and don't know what a 'match school' is; interested enough to have read the WSJ articles 'for years' but just now finding CC? It's all possible, I suppose, and I apologize if the story is legit.

[emeraldkity4]

I wouldn't assume that the coasts have good college advising.
I know that <cough> my daughters high school, had a teacher that was also the college advisor, and frankly while many did hire an advisor, some just winged it.
Her sisters public school, while one of the best in the state also has counselors who may change every year ( this year- her junior year- she will again have abrand new counselor- who isn't even hired yet)

I also was wondering about Mac- it is an excellent school
in fact one professor at the Univ of Wa who is currently heading up research on BEC Bose Einstein Condensate
sent one of his sons to Mac. great school- great city.

[peege04]

Lefthandofdog. Yes, this is true. Our public school had much more confidence than we had that our son would get into one of his choices and we were swayed by them. My husband felt the U was better for sciences than Macalester. He's donated to Macalester for years and likes the place, but felt very strongly (and still does) that they are not up to the U of M in science. And yes, as people have responded and talked about match schools, I'd like to know how to find these for our daughter and for our son if he needs to transfer.

My husband and I are very, very impressed with the U of M. I just want to be better prepared this coming year if our son is not adjusting and desires a transfer. My son was interested in the Caltech, MIT, U Chicago schools not only for their prestige, but for the academic climate. This is one thing that the U of M does not have. As a Big Ten grad myself, I know all about the big sports/drinking/social climate at a big school like the U of M. This could be a major turnoff for our son. If it is, I want to have better preparation than I had last time.

[unbelievablem]

i think there have been threads complaining about school college advising from people from al different types of schools. among friends, i think complaining about the college advising is much more prevalent than talking about counselling successes. maybe that's why so many of us parents end up doing our own research because we just dont feel like we can rely on a school gc.

if it makes you feel any better, on the east coast we moan about how the fact that there are so many applicants from here makes it so much harder on our kids. truth is, admission is getting harder and harder all over -- i don't think anyone or any region really has the definitive answer.

[peege04]

Our son just came home and when I told him what I was doing, I asked him if he planned to drop his malaise and work hard at the U of M and he said he would work hard. If he follows through on that, I know he'll be fine.

[btm]

Peege please correct me if I've missed something and forgive any wrong assumptions, I am really trying to understand. It appears that getting into an Ivy was extremely important for your son based both on his college list and his disappointment. He is a great student, so he knows the importance of homework. Yet, no offence, but he seems amazingly ignorant and unprepared for the admission process, in other words he has not done his homework. You did not know what the “matches” are - did he know this? Why did he apply for so many colleges he did not even like? Did he spend any time gathering information about colleges he applied into, was he merely curious, did he change his mind later? Did he take it for granted that he'll get into some Ivy, did he research his chances at all? I am sure that your son was not overtly ambitious, he was merely uneducated about the process. He did not have a good GC and this is unfortunate, but a lot of information is freely available from books, family friends, web, peers etc. I really wish you found this site earlier…

He knew that many colleges of his choice specifically require SAT II in science - he might have guessed that they do it for a reason. Yet, he was completely surprised to discover organic chem questions on the SATII test? So, he has never looked at a single practice test, he did not even know what the test was about? He is an amazingly gifted student and evidently is able to prepare for a test in a single day, yet he did not take the trouble to prepare? Was he not motivated enough, lazy, overconfident? Don't you think this could be a factor in college adcom decisions? Sure colleges look for gifted kids, but they also look for kids with strong work habits, with motivation and with ability to organize themselves amongst many other qualities.

Sorry if I brought you down, this really was not my intention and I am sure your son is an amazing kid. I am glad he is recovering and sure he'll be just fine. But I was really disappointed reading your story. This reminds me of some of my friends who let their kids drive their admission process without much insight. One girl ended up registering for two SAT II tests at the test center where one of the tests was not even offered on that day. Due to a poor planning, this was her first and her last chance to take both tests before application deadline, so she ended up taking another SAT II test in different subject, completely unprepared. I hear about kids missing deadlines, starting to choose colleges and working on college applications in the fall of a senior year, failing to request recommendation letters... I am very far from being a perfectionist, but for all four years of extremely hard work (as you correctly pointed out) can these kids afford to loose points on silly mistakes due to extremely poor planning or ignorance? Is this worth it?

May be some kids are just not mature enough to be in charge, so do we have to step back or be helicopter parents? Where to draw a line? Should the kids be allowed to learn from their own mistakes and to what extent? How much help should we offer (and the process is so far from easy - can an average student even handle this by himself?). May be taking a gap year IS a solution allowing kids to mature. This is not at all about life or death choices, not about getting into a selective college. but about credit and recognition, about getting what they deserve, about reward for their time and effort, about fully realizing their potential and making the best of the situation, about fulfilling the dream.

[blossom]

Peege, kids from around here who like the MIT, Caltech, Chicago type schools usually look at and apply to: (use your judgement)
RPI, Case, BU, Arizona, Rochester, U Michigan, Hopkins, Olin. There's a range of selectivity here.... Case is usually a match/safety for this type of kid whereas Hopkins is a reach (but less reachy than Cal Tech if that makes sense.) Some are stronger in engineering than in physics, but unless your son has already identified a clear interest in a particular subject, all should do the trick. (Arizona for Astronomy... Olin more for engineering. etc.)

[avwh]

If he's learned to like learning for its own sake (and he almost certainly has - few kids can take the long-term view and forsake immediate gratification by working 4+ years just for the "prize" of "the best college" - so I suspect he's definitely "hooked" on learning), and he's self-motivated (as it sounds like he's been throughout high school) - he'll do fine at Minnesota.

[marite]

Peege:

It's great that your son has a good attitude as he gets ready to attend U of MN. It's way too early to think about transferring right now. Transfer applications are usually due some time in the spring; by then, he will have had a chance to see how well he fits in at U of MN, how good the department is and how much support he is getting. He will also have had a first semester record in case he still wishes to transfer. So there is plenty of time to relax. Don't look back--it's futile. Don't look to next year--it's premature. Enjoy the moment.

[jerzgrlmom]

I can understand how the OP's son feels a bit let down. Probably lots of kids were in the same boat (rejected by top schools) but they may have had some other schools (besides the state U) to choose from. My son (a rising senior) is having a hard time coming up with safeties because he feels the schools I'm suggesting are too easy - that's where classmates who didn't work hard go. At first he felt I didn't have confidence in him but I've been telling him about Andi & others in his situation. I think he's finally listening & understanding how tough the competition is.

Many kids here use Rutgers as their safety but my son hated the idea coz so many of his classmates go there. He recently did some research into the Bio/Neurobio program and found a top researcher on the faculty. Reading about his research in our newspaper also made him appreciate some of the opportunities there. Unfortunately he isn't thrilled with the campus (nor are we) but he added it to his list. I just hope he can come up with a few other match/safeties.

It's just hard to figure out what are real safety and match schools for kids with top stats. Even when the kids "match up", these schools must still be considered complete reaches.