Is this safety "safe" enough? - Page 2

HImom · 10-02-2006, 02:31 AM

Seattle U Honor's College offers good merit + need aid, if that might be a school your S is interested in.
Wilammette in Oregon also offers good merit + need aid, if your son has interest in that school.
His stats should get him good consideration for a nice award package. I know kids who have been accepted at both of these Us with good award packages.

orjr · 10-02-2006, 02:51 AM

Thanks all! The SCEA thing at Stanford is his dream - and I guess we can all have one! He knows it is very unlikely, so he may change his mind in favor of a couple of nonbinding EA apps - I will check again, but I didn't think Whitman had nonbinding EA. The sports: he is not DI so the schools where he could play are Pomona, CMC (he is meeting with these coaches today and tomorrow), Whitman, and maybe Trinity(?) they are pretty high powered so maybe not. Also, he is unsure of the possibility of soccer at Emory. He has heard from alot of coaches at other schools - including Willamette, but somehow isn't very interested - maybe this will change.
The state school is a possibility, but would be very disappointing to him - it is large, slightly granola leaning, and not academically exciting to him. We'd rather see if we can find a financial safety of 5K kids or less with a nice pool of sporty intellectuals who don't drink too much. How's that for specific

I will check out Seattle U Honors - that sounds like a good lead! Keep the ideas coming....

orjr · 10-02-2006, 02:57 AM

Just checked - Whitman does not have EA. So the only school with EA is Trinity, except for Stanford's SCEA.

HImom · 10-02-2006, 03:00 AM

My friend's D had to choose between Reed & SeattleU Honors Program. She ended up choosing Seattle U because the honors program really impressed her & her mom + the award package was MUCH better than any other she received by over $10,000.
Wilammette does have soccer, and a kid we know is there on a merit, soccer scholarship.

jmmom · 10-02-2006, 09:03 AM

1. 8 or 9 apps is definitely not too many when you are seeking just the right financial package.

2. The qx of whether to use SCEA at a reach/almost not possible school versus EA at a match/almost safe school comes up from time to time and you will hear many different views.

My take, after reading extensively on it, including what the schools say - SCEA does NOT increase your chances at a school like Stanford, even though that is the common wisdom that many are loathe to let go. At many of these top, top schools, the SCEA pool is stronger than the RD pool; the schools say that they do NOT take "lesser" candidates during SCEA. Stanford's statement:

Quote:

Is there an advantage to applying early?
Although our admit rate for Single-Choice Early Action is slightly higher than our overall admit rate (20% vs. 12% in 2005), that does not represent a significant advantage over Regular Decision. Our early pool of applicants is a very strong group and the admit rate is a reflection of that strength, not of any preference on our part to admit students earlier. We remain committed to reserving the majority of our offers of admission for the Regular Decision cycle.

What I would do if I were you is research the stats for Stanford. This particular school posts a lot of admissions detail on its web site and you can also search the Common Data Set for Stanford to see how SCEA has worked for students of his calibre in the past.

If you conclude as I have said above, I would use the EA at Trinity - because it sounds like you need merit PLUS need aid and I think you should go for the early bird boost.

He can and should still apply to Stanford RD.

All of the above assumes that his athletic qualifications will not be a significant factor (ie, he is a recruitable athlete for Stanford). If he is, I'm sure that changes things significantly, but I know nothing on that subject).

JMO.

cptofthehouse · 10-02-2006, 11:26 AM

I'm sure your son is going to have some nice choices. I think that Seattle U is just to have in his pocket, though I have seen a number of kids who got some very nice scholarships from their safety, visited it, found some good programs there and even ended up there. My older son ended up liking his two safeties very much, a surprise because he put little thought in their selection or even thinking about the schools until the very end of the process when he was offered some excellent merit scholarships there, and felt he should at least take a look. His take was "I could go there and be happy". He did not as he did get into some schools that he had really wanted, and yes, there was a bit of prestige factor in play as well. My other son is at his safety, and it was an awakening of sorts when he finally focused on what was available there, and it became a serious option. Again the merit aid was what made him take a good look at the school, even though we would have paid the full private school cost had he wanted to go to one of those. It turned out, however, that our state school had exact combo of programs and courses he wanted whereas his other choices where not quite there, once he started asking more directed questions and getting to know how the programs were run. It took the whole admissions season to get to that point for him.

I don't know how much of an advantage it is to apply EA to Stanford, but I also don't know what the advantages are to apply EA to any of his other schools. Often EA does not give you your financial package until RD time. It relieves the student of the admissions question--you know you are in, but I reall think this young man is going to be admitted to those schools. What he needs is the financial part taken care of and that is more difficult. He should call and find out if there are any advantages in getting scholarship money by applying early at those schools and how much of an advange there are. Some schools will only give EAers their juiciest awards, and if that's the case, he should find another school since he wants a shot at the big merit money. That's why rolling at a school with a low state sticker price with some built in merit aid can be the financial safety. If he can get situation covered, he can then have much more flexibility with everything else.

EllenF · 10-02-2006, 02:08 PM

If I understand your posts correctly, you are concerned not only about an admissions safety school, but also a financial safety school. That is, you want to be sure your son is admitted somewhere that you can afford to send him.

Many merit awards aren't announced until March or April, after the application deadline for most colleges has passed. My son applied to two RD schools and was accepted by both in the fall. One notified him of a piddly merit award when he was accepted, but he didn't learn about the substantial awards offered by both schools until spring.

If your son needs significant merit aid or would prefer not to have loans which are often a large component of the financial package, he may want to add some financial safety schools to his list, i.e. schools where he is at the very top (not just top 25%) of the applicant pool and very likely to receive a large merit award.

You may want to contact curmudgeon here on CC. He is knowledgeable about how to identify financial safety schools and/or schools where a student is likely to receive large merit awards.

weenie · 10-02-2006, 02:32 PM

Subscribe to US News Premium online edition for $15/year. It has some interesting figures for almost every school on how much aid they give out and what kinds of aid. It is under "Tuition & Financial AId" and at the bottom of the page.

For instance, for Whitman it indicates that of the 83% who apply for aid, only 58% are "determined to have need." Of those, 78% have full need met. There's lots more info there too.

curmudgeon · 10-02-2006, 04:14 PM

I didn't catch the state of residence, was it "thrown"? LOL And how does that 2010 SAT break-out in sub-scores?

From the list of schools I'd say our kids are a lot alike in what they might like about a school (the light booze thing is going to be tough). And to answer your specific question "Is Whitman safe enough?" the answer is unfortunately, no. (Edit: Actually it's not just no, it's NO.) "Is 8 or 9 is too many?" We had 14. Probably overkill and had she had the benefit of hindsight she would have dropped some incredibly similar safety-ish schools - maybe. (Then again, maybe not.

)

I think he needs more schools in the financial match category and to be blunt , I don't see your financial safety anywhere.

It is my opinion that you should concentrate all your energy there until that school is established. My D had a school (Hanover College) that she liked and had visited that would guarantee her enough merit aid that we could pay the rest with some difficulty. She knew she was going to a TOP 100 LAC that she liked from that day forward. When we found Hanover the pressure lessened by 75%. It was a very happy day.

There are great schools doing great things where he can be (within reason) assured of getting a merit package , or combo of need and merit that allows attendance.

curmudgeon · 10-02-2006, 04:48 PM

If your family really wants to play this game "for keeps" , and wants to make the commitment, then I think he needs 3 or 4 100% of need schools as true reaches (Stanford because it's his dream , Pomona, CMC, Emory, Williams or similar. I'd notch down just a bit if standardized testing didn't come up to Hamilton or Colgate instead of Williams. Maybe Trinity or Bates or Colby. ).

Then I'd have 4 or 5 schools at the admissions match/financial reach category . We won't know where that is exactly until all the tests are in but let's assume it's at the Trinity U level.

Then you need 4 or 5 schools at the Hanover level. Like a Lake Forest (similar to other schools on the list). Usually but not always Top 60-100 LAC's.

Think about the concept of reverse commute when you are trying for $. All the girls go there, a guy should apply. Seeking geo diversity? Go outside the West Coast.

Off the top of my head , I'd say you should look at Southwestern in Texas (it could be a much better choice $ wise than Trinity). It might be perfect and their merit awards (at all but the highest level) are mostly transparent. They want geo-diversity and need guys. I have other suggestions but let's see what you think of that one so I can check my aim.

mini · 10-02-2006, 04:57 PM

"We'd rather see if we can find a financial safety of 5K kids or less with a nice pool of sporty intellectuals who don't drink too much. How's that for specific?"

You MIGHT find them at Williams, but you'd have to look hard. (50%+ binge drinking rate, 29% heavy (meaning almost daily) drinkers. Whitman is hardly dry (or Pomona) but there tends to be less on the west coast than the east.

You might consider looking at Occidental a bit harder, especially given your son's social commitments.

cptofthehouse · 10-02-2006, 07:51 PM

I agree with Curmudgeon about the financial safety. I though U of Seattle was a state school but I just peeked at its web site and found that it is not. Now many of my son's friends had catholic schools as financial safeties, but that was because the good brothers at the high school could tell you where you would get in, and about how much you would get at a number of the catholic schools. Not the biggies like ND or BC, but Canisus, Niagara, Iona, Bonaventure, Siena, Stonehill, Manhattan, St John were all pretty predictable to them, and as a result many kids who had to get aid to go to college had an easy time with financial safeties. They also tended to get a bit more of the money than their stats would indicate on a number of their schools, and I suspect it was not just divine intervention at work. But unless you are in a network like that, you can't rely on most private schools in terms of what kind of aid or scholarship you are going to get. I've seen kids who had to be waaay up there in stats that did not get much of a merit award, and others get the money that were not as academically endowed, and for no apparent reason. That's why if you need that money, you have to get a sure thing in the bag early so that you can then focus on the goodies and dream away.

orjr · 10-02-2006, 08:13 PM

OK - you guys are good! Thanks for all the suggestions. We really have looked quite a lot, I don't want you to think I'm asking without doing my homework. Cur is right, what we need to concentrate on finding are a few financial safeties that he could honestly get excited about attending. We are in Oregon, and the truth is the state schools here are just not that appealing academically and culturally to him. He doesn't want to be so far from home, though, that getting back is a huge financial hardship - unless he has some "wow" factor to show for it. The schools back east/south aren't going to get a visit unless he's accepted, so he doesn't have much to go on except web research, guide books, and friends.
Cur - the 2010 is 710 verbal, 660 math, 640 writing. He was really expecting higher scores (maybe you should prep??) so he's retaking 10/14 and hoping for a boost. His only SAT II is Lit - 740. He's taking Math IIC and Bio 11/4.
Cpt - many schools he almost likes are either jesuit or religious of some type. Does anyone have experience with Univ. of Portland, Whitworth, or Westmont? S thought Westmont to be way too conservative in theology, but I'm thinking Whitworth or Gonzaga could be good.
I do have US News subscription, as many suggested,but am fishing around looking for info.
Hey Cur - We're the ones who you called your "next project" - glad you're still here! S is interested in Rhodes as well, but hearing from students there that the Greek scene is overwhelming and the city a bit difficult to navigate. How's your D doing???

curmudgeon · 10-02-2006, 08:57 PM

OP, I thought that you resembled somebody.

Blame it on a failing memory. Duh. Well, anyway -it was a brief sabbatical. Sorry to leave you hanging.

Greek scene is NOT overwhelmingly possessive or exclusive , but booze? More than I would like. City gets easier to navigate. D is doing great. Loving it. Says 80% of the kids are smart and the other 20% aren't stupid. Quite an improvement over high school.

She has already been signed up for a neat NIH funded research job next semester in her field of choice and has her volunteer placement at U Of Tennessee Medical School's Hospital. That plus Ultimate Frisbee Travel Team (Vandy this week), Church Groups, Varsity basketball, salsa dancing lessons, her sorority, tough classes with profs she adores, papers every week, plus seminars.... well , she's right on schedule to burn out and join the krishnas junior year.

cptofthehouse · 10-02-2006, 09:10 PM

Carolyn is the west coast guru of those sorts of schools, it seems to me. I cannot give any advice in that area. I do know that Occidental is an excellent school that gives a lot of merit money, but it also has high stats. My son visited Loyola in LA, and thought that it was a beautiful school, and it sent him lots of merit info, but I am not in that loop to give advice. If you research some of Carolyn's older posts, there's a lot of info on west coast catholic schools since her student was in a catholic highschool. I just glanced through them, as we are, at this point, even more east coast than you are as far as schools for our next one. My son who is now in college just happened to be visiting LA and decided to look at some schools there which was how he looked at Loyola.
Good luck in your search. As I said before, I'm sure he will have some good choices in college. It's the money end that is difficult, because it is even more unpredictable than admissinons.