We're stumped--son needs help.

AnonTXmom · 01-07-2005, 08:52 PM

Our son is having a terrible time academically at a really tough technical school. The long and short of it is, he's being asked to leave. He will appeal, but will probably not succeed. We're looking for suggestions. I've received some helpful ideas on some other forums, but I thought I might get a wider parent audience here (I was unable to get in this afternoon).

He's a great kid who seems to love the school (I don't know why--I wouldn't) and the people there. He sailed through our small rural high school, self-studied, and made great scores on SAT Is and IIs, but can't conquer the math he's been handed.

What would you suggest?

kirmum · 01-07-2005, 08:55 PM

Is his intended career math oriented?

AnonTXmom · 01-07-2005, 09:02 PM

Yes--scientific research or computer science.

jonri · 01-07-2005, 09:17 PM

First, just in case, I'd have him tested for learning disabilities. Believe it or not, I know some kids who had fairly serious ones who didn't discover them until college. It's probable that's not the root of his academic difficulties, but I'd definitely have him tested to make sure. Second, have his eyesight and hearing tested. Again, I've known kids who were hearing impaired and didn't realize it because they had learned to lip read very well. But lip reading in a high school classroom and in a large lecture hall are two different things. Again, just make sure that there's no physical problem.

Then, I'd think about having him work for a while and take a few math courses at a community college or any local college or, if that's not a possibility, on-line.

Finally, if the college he is currently attending is at the higher end of the competitive scale, you might want to consider one that's less competitive. Don't flame me for the following, but....there was a young man who used to post on the message boards who did very poorly at Cornell in engineering. He transferred to Youngstown State, stayed in engineering, and graduated with a 3.7. He said it really was just much easier. Don't argue with me that it isn't...I don't claim to know; I just know someone who more or less had to leave Cornell did really well at Youngstown and said that it was easier because the classes were taught at a slower pace.

Good luck..and remember the part about being a great kid; I may sound sanctimonious, but that really is more important.

kirmum · 01-07-2005, 09:35 PM

Usually colleges know who will be successful there, but sometimes it doesn't work out. My nephew was accepted at Caltech, and after one term it was clear that he wasn't going to make it. The school was great and willing to work with the family, but it was clear to all that he wasn't going to be competitive there. So we took a hard look at several things. Was he cut out for a career where math/science skills at a high level were necessary? What were his true strenghts? What were his life expectations? If he went to an "easier" engineering school, would he be satisfied with the job opportunities as they would not be the same ones a Caltech grad would be looking at? As jonri suggests, we had testing done. Nephew is now a happy and successful psych major at a good State school. He'll get into a good grad school and be very competitive in his new career goal. Good luck to you and your son, it will work out.

oldman · 01-07-2005, 10:06 PM

Is there a possibility the math problem is a fluke? Bad teacher, bad luck,etc...if so another go of it somewhere else may be worthwhile even with a similar curriculum.......on the other hand........Coming out of high school I thought I was a math/science whiz...enrolled in Engr at UVA in 1975...breezed thru till I hit the 4th semester....oops...I was de-whizzed!! Couldn't hack it.....4th and 20 so I punted over into the college....the grass was greener....the girls cuter....grades better....me happier! Much! But it was difficult ,at least initially, to accept that I was out of my league. Yet at age 19 one readily rebounds.
In the college I enrolled in softer science stuff such as physiology and genetics....went to med school...I know a lot of docs who have no head for science whatsoever...I'm sure if your son is fixed on "science" research he can find and excel in a science field that is less technical...if indeed math,etc. truly is a legit concern.

cangel · 01-07-2005, 10:12 PM

Anon, please see my reply to your original post on the other forum, oldman is describing another example of my story, except he got a little further -2nd year engineering, good job oldman! Medicine is not the only science related field that does not require very high level math, but it is a good example.

AnonTXmom · 01-07-2005, 10:17 PM

All good ideas. Kirmum--you said, "the school was great and willing to work with the family." Did they help with the testing, or help him get into another school, or what? We do not understand the math well enough to figure out what the problem is, but he took a math course at a local state school in an attempt to prepare himself for the next one at his school. It was considered an upper-level course there, and he made an "A".

Jonri--the idea of testing for learning disabilities is interesting. He even asked us over Christmas if we thought he could have ADD, since he is having trouble concentrating. I suspect that's not the problem, but more his state of mind right now. I hadn't thought of hearing impairment, but understanding profs is sometimes a problem--more because of the accents of ESL speakers, I think. Any suggestions on where to go for testing? Our small town doesn't have much available, and they would laugh me out of the office if I suggested such a thing (everyone knows him). And yes, being a wonderful person is much more important. You're quite right about that. It's just very difficult watching this happen, and not being able to "fix" it. Thanks for your help.

01-07-2005, 10:19 PM

I attended a technical college after going to a small, all girls boarding school. I was top of the class, the only student in calculus, one of two in physics. I had a good math SAT and a 5 on the AB calculus exam. I was completely overwhelmed my first semester. Thank goodness all the classes were graded pass fail. There was a HUGE difference between my preparation and that of my classmates who had gone to rigorous HS programs, especially those who had gone to specialized schools.

Did your son take the easiest math and science courses available to him or did he try to move up based on AP scores? I think this is the biggest mistake kids from less intense HS programs can make their first semester.

My issue was not lack of aptitude, I had no learning disabilies, etc..(and can I say from a professional perspective this may not be most likely explanation for what your son is experiencing..)... I was simply out of my league with a much more sophisticated group of kids...ultimately, I did fine- my math skills were not top of the heap..of course, but I was definitely successful after starting from the beginning...

jonri · 01-07-2005, 10:40 PM

As for eyesight and hearing, a regular old doctor for the preliminary test. Yes, a regular old doctor. You can't lip read with headphones on, and they usually test your hearing with headphones. Tell the doctor the truth..the kid's had problems at school, and , just to be sure, you want to rule out hearing and vision problems. So, be thorough. (I do admit that I'd advocate going to a different regular old doctor than your usual one---just so he's not going to avoid discovering a problem he's missed for a lot of years.)

As for learning disabilities, the college your son is still in should be willing to let him get tested there. Be polite..but firm...something makes no sense here folks AND THIS IS A HUMAN BEING. Beyond that..contact your state board of education and ask about testing. If that's no help, look for school psychologists and attorneys specializing in education law or contact your local bar association. That may sound "whack"--as the kids say--but attorneys specializing in education law usually know who are the best experts in testing for learning disabilities in your area. School psychologists do too.

BTW, I agree with Robym that neither of these is likely to be the problem--but you need to be able to rule them out because other solutions won't work if they are..Just a matter of being thorough.

Good luck!

kirmum · 01-07-2005, 11:01 PM

I would have to seriously disagree with Jonri's last post. Unless the school is public, they have absolutely no obligation to support any student with a learning disability. I think the idea is that your child should not be at a school where he can not do well. If the situarion is just lack of preparation as in Robrym's case, you should know that after a term or two. Ir doesn't sound like that's the case here. In mky nephews case, the school did not get involved with the testing, but they suggested it. They left the door open to his coming back if we could address the issues in a way that would make that sensible. They also provided strong support when he applied to other colleges. I think this is what you might want to ask of his school. No school wants to see a kid fail. I have a feeling they will strongly support your son in options all think makes sense.

TheDad · 01-07-2005, 11:04 PM

RobyRM's post resonates with me...how challenging was his prep versus how challenging a school is he at?

As for me, I had the passion for engineering but not the Math ability...I stuck with it until junior year when the equivalent of fifth-semester Calculus made for a metaphorical re-enactment of Pickett's Charge. Though that wasn't the only course...I plotzed to a spectacular 1.3 GPA one quarter. Hit the parachute into Political Science and did just fine.

momfromtexas · 01-07-2005, 11:18 PM

Has he spoken to the math professors? They should be able to provide some vital information about why he is not succeeding if the reason is knowledge/skill based. Does he go to them for assistance during their office hours? Is math tutoring available at this university? If he can get an A at a different college then learning difficulties may not be the answer. This sounds like a learning curve issue to me. Also, not everyone can flourish at every task

Yalebound72 · 01-07-2005, 11:22 PM

If he's the one who's upset, why are you doing the posting? The problem sounds to me like you're uptight; you will "solve" the problem; you are defining the problem. Lighten up. He needs someone to talk, not someone to find an answer for him. Besides, you can't. he's abig boy. Give him the space to work it out for himself. It's a skill he must master, not you.

dmd77 · 01-07-2005, 11:32 PM

I'm with Roby on her questions: was your son really well prepared, or did he just think he understood the stuff? If he's being asked to leave, are you sure the math is the only issue? Are there other factors your son may not want to mention?

Are you absolutely sure your son isn't taking any drugs? If he's drinking or smoking to reduce stress, that could reduce his math abilities, even if he doesn't think so.

Several practical answers: re-take the math in a lower-stress environment, like a community college, and then go back to college; transfer to an easier school... You don't name the college, but if it's MIT or CalTech, you're talking about a place where academics are HARD. (I found four courses at MIT at once a thorough challenge--years later, I could handle 9 courses (yes, 9), two kids in pre-school, and a life besides at a state university---more easily than four at MIT.)

As for liking it while struggling: he may be enjoying the non-academic aspects of college. My son is far less fond of the courses at MIT than he is of the non-academic opportunities available to him.