admissions "hot spots" spread

[epiphany]

"A recent college fair in Chapel Hill attracted several parents researching colleges -- without their children. "

Yes, this is definitely proof of "anxiety." It's not possibly an indication that the fair started during school & e.c. hours just prior to a Friday family commitment, that parent swung by merely to pick up some literature prior to picking up student for that commitment. (Yes, that was us -- & not in the region discussed.)

So Ms. Pope might suggest to colleges that they hold the fair on a weekend? The 2 reasons that neither of my d's have attended a fair is that (1) in our area they've never been accompanied by hard information -- no presentations, & often not much opportunity to meet anyone with actual knowledge, as they send their PR armies, (2) they're held at impossible times for the students.

As to the point (1), at same fair mentioned above, I was also briefly there with a friend + daughter. I watched, listened while they questioned college "reps" who gave them very little useful information.

So now when you stop in to pick up a brochure, it's "anxiety." Terrific.

[weenie]

I agree with thumper. I think we underestimate the effect of so many northerners moving out of here to points south.

Of course, one must put this kid of stuff in perspective. The REAL national emergency has nothing to do with too many kids trying to get into top colleges. The real emergency is the number of kids not even finishing high school. I wonder how those numbers compare.

Also, the media always overestimates this sort of "new problem." It reminds me of: everyone has a big problem finding a nanny, all moms have trouble choosing between staying home with their kids and being the CEO, every teenager has difficulty choosing between a VW Jetta and a Pontiac Firebird, every 20 year old must choose between Cancun or Jamaica for spring break, all recent grads move home to lounge by the pool while leaching off mom and dad...

[Venkat89]

Lots of the college anxiety for rural and other poor areas nation wide is not getting into HYPSM, but getting into the State Uni with a full or near full scholarship. Most people in America cannot pay full tuition for college (go figure) so academically motivated kids will aim at their state colleges and other public and private colleges that do merit aid based on test scores and GPA and less on amazing ECs that they cannot afford to do. If you work every day in high school to pay the bills, that cuts into time you have to go to a third world country and build houses probono. However, if a kid can get a 4.0 and 1500+ (old SAT) then s/he is in a great position to earn a bunch of merit aid at his/her state school. There are only so many of these scholarships too, so it starts to get competitive at every level.

[vienna man]

If there is one thing the college system in America does do, it is to route the true academic superstars to the very top schools with scholarships. Charles Murray I think pointed out that scoring 700+ on the SAT verbal is 40 times more concentrated at the top 12 universities than it is in the general population.

[StickerShock]

If there is one thing the college system in America does do, it is to route the true academic superstars to the very top schools with scholarships.

There aren't many top 12 universities that offer scholarships. It's mostly needs-based.

[vienna man]

In a school where everyone has stellar scores how would anyone ever determine merit? These are the places where "bear any burden, pay any price" applies. What parents need to discern is that there is huge chasm between these few places and about 150 schools that are pretending to be on the same level that are not and should not be "bear any burden pay any price" places.

[StickerShock]

People turn down these top 12 all the time because they are not willing to pay any price. So the meritocracy hasn't been exclusively concentrated here. It is spread around at dozens of good schools.

I think the "bear any burden pay any price" designation is a completely personal one. Many feel the chasm isn't quite so wide and merit money just makes their decision even more sensible. Also worth noting is that you can go pretty far down in the rankings and still find many schools that have 700+ scores that are much more concentrated than in the general population. And that's where the scholarships are. Maybe it's 30 times more. Or ten times more.

[asteriskea]

Good points, StickerShock. This is a highly personal decision and also has to do with all the reasons why a student decides to go on to college in the first place. These days the soaring COA is obviously an important issue and, even with financial aid packages, there will come a point at which many families will just decide that they have arrived at the point of diminishing returns. This is precisely why many public state universities use current statistics to emphasize the economic-financial benefit, or eventual payback, of attending any college as one of the major drawing cards to attract applicants away from top private elites. While Ivy and Stanford grads (etc.) may have a recruiting advantage for some high paying fields, such as law, elite universities, notably Princeton, advise strongly against attending if your primary aim is simply future economic gain.

This is taken from the University of North Texas website.

Why Go To College?

The big payback

The competitive advantage is yours if you choose to graduate from college. Experts who have researched the performance and job success of college graduates have concluded that, nationwide, college graduates with a bachelor's degree earn about 80 percent more per year than those who only complete high school. In fact, those whose education stops with a high school diploma may see their real wages decline over time...

As you outline your future, spend time considering what you want to do with your life. As with any major purchase, you'll want to be a wise consumer: Look at the choices, compare prices, think about what's important to you and go for the best quality your money can buy. College doesn't guarantee happiness and success, but it does help you make the best of your own life.

* The average four-year college education at a public university
in Texas (in-state tuition and fees) costs about $17,500, less than the cost of the average new car.
* The annual income for a person with a bachelor’s degree is nearly twice that of someone with a high school diploma.
* You'll get more mileage out of a college education than you will from a used car, and that four-year education will likely enable you to buy a new car or two and many other things in your lifetime. In making the decision of whether - and where - to attend college, you and your parents should consider those four years as a lifetime investment, not just as annual expenses for job training.

http://www.unt.edu/pais/howtochoose/why.htm

[curmudgeon]

If there is one thing the college system in America does do, it is to route the true academic superstars to the very top schools with scholarships.

I really can't believe anyone would say this with a straight face.

What parents need to discern is that there is huge chasm between these few places and about 150 schools that are pretending to be on the same level that are not

Oh, wait. Now I understand. Sorry. Didn't realize you were from another planet (in this case the planet Naive). My mistake.

[vienna man]

From the Bell Curve p.43 "Just ten schools soaked up 31% of the nation's students scoring over 700 on the SAT verbal and just two soaked up 10%"

Believe what you want to believe, but the chasm between the top 20 and the next 150 schools is as deep as the Grand Canyon and anyone who pretends that xxxx or yyyy is worth $45K per year the same as the top 20 is deluding themselves.

My argument is that for all but the very top students, the local state university is just fine and is a far better value than astronomically overpriced private schools. College, beyond about 20 schools is a true commodity and parents need to start treating it that way in their decisions.

The admissions frenzy has no basis, and we should not let the media falsely "harvardize" all these private schools.

[curmudgeon]

all but the very top students

Might I make a guess that you believe this includes you? What pray tell were your scores that render you a "very top student"? Just so I can compare them to some students I know who are not at top twenty schools and receiving what they believe are fantastic educations.

And if you would be so kind , name your top twelve as in your first posts, or your top twenty as it has morphed in this last post, so we may know which schools are worth attending.


Additionally you are aware that "very top" kids turn down acceptances to top twelve schools everyday for a variety of reasons don't you? And you do know that even more don't even chose to apply as they know that the schools won't suit their needs?

One size fits all advice is always wrong. So says me.

[vienna man]

And if they do turn them down I hope they attend a reasonably priced state university rather than a $45,000 per year debt manufacturing private school.

[bethievt]

I'd like to see the list too. I totally disagree that there are only 20 worth paying big bucks for. Even without the merit aid factor. I do believe though, that a motivated student can get a really good educations at most schools.

[originaloog]

Some students experience avoidable stress and pressure regarding college admissions, which sometimes starts as early as middle school and in extreme cases even earlier.

In many, if not most cases the stress and pressure experience by the student is the direct result of parental expectations, some reasonable and some not. And any undue pressure prior to hs junior year is almost always from the parents. This is a same because, while we parents should encourage and nurture our children, we should also let them be children and engage in oh so important play and social activities.

I can honestly say that we exerted no undue pressure on our son other than to emphasize that education was important and that he needed to take it seriously. He did good in hs but could have done better. But he had a blast outside of the classroom and nothing he did could have been remotely considered to be resume building. He did not apply to any "reach" colleges and was not pressured to do so by us or his gc, so no pressure there.

The result is that he is an extremely happy college junior who is succeeding in the classroom beyond our wildest expectations. Nary a bump in the road thus far with the exception of a lone alcohol incident frosh year which has not been repeated.

[StickerShock]

Vienna man, I just don't see how you can take data from a 12 year old book & claim these 12 schools are worth "pay any price bear any burden" money. But all the rest fall short. What is the total freshman enrollment at these top 12. Maybe 25,000 kids? (I'm guessing) So nobody else in this nation of 300,000,000 people is likely to be well served at these schools? Conversely, no student at the tippy top could possibley be served well at a public U? When a school drops from number 12 down to number 15, does it suddenly lose its ability to educate? Its value?

Re: scholarships. Aren't about half of the kids going to these 12 schools paying full price out of pocket? They felt it was worth it. Do you have data on all the super students who don't choose to attend these schools? Or don't apply at all? These kids & their families felt the $45G was not worth it. Are they deluding themselves, too, because you are dictating what it worthwhile and what is not?

I would argue that every college education is a commodity, even the education at the top 12. Different strokes for different folks.