selective high school.. opinions wanted

parent56 · 01-01-2007, 11:14 AM

our son is currently in 9th grade and has been invited to apply to a selective high school for math and sciences which would mean boarding. Part of the application was to take the ACT. His 9th grade ACT score is 28 (composite) He is currently the top rank student in his high school. Loves his school/friends/ec activities and is not bored or acting out.
As parents we wonder if colleges will look more at a student from an unknown school (whose guidance teacher admits she has no knowledge of selective school acceptance or scholarships etc.. 99+% of kids from his current hs go to instate colleges and his goal is to go to an out of state bigger school) or will colleges view his attendance at a selective high school taking much harder courses etc. as more favorable.
We are "assuming" that by his senior year his ACT would be in the 30's which might allow him to consider ivy league schools.
The school for math and sciences was quite impressive when we went for a visit, the scores on ACT etc and college acceptances and scholarships were much greater than his local high school
Anyone here have any experience with sending a child to a selective high school that would be willing to share that experience, and pros and cons re college acceptance would be appreciated . We are struggling with the idea of boarding school and the big fish in small town (currently) vs one of many gifted kids at the selective school.
thanks for any input!

bsb2007 · 01-01-2007, 11:39 AM

To me if he's happy where he is...let him continue there and college will notice that he is the top ranked and had a 28 on the ACT (wow!) when he was a freshmen. On the other hand, i fhe wnats to be challenged, offer the opportunity to him.

menloparkmom · 01-01-2007, 11:54 AM

A lot depends on what state you currently live in, as many selective colleges want diversity, which can mean picking a top student from an unknown school in Idaho say, vrs choosing one of thousands of top students from Mass. Would your son have the opportunity for outside enrichment if he stayed home- i.e take classes at a local college if he stayed at his current HS for instance? Stanford University's EPGY program has this year started a virtual High school for gifted students, so that may be something to look into if he exhausts his current HS class offerings soon or if he want to take additional subjects not offered where he lives. Does you son want to go to this boarding school? How far away is it from home? And how mature is he? Does he react well to change and how competative is he? All of these can be factors in making a decision.

cheers · 01-01-2007, 11:56 AM

What state do you live in?

If your son is happy and challenged, I'd say he has a better chance of getting into top schools from the obscure school in a small town. The boarding school will have many very bright students and an established track record of placing them into colleges. Top colleges place an extra burden of 'proof' on elite wschools. The GPA requirements and SAT requirements are higher if the student is coming from an elite school with a history of sending students to Ivies etc.

It would be fair to ask the boarding school if you could see their scattergrams--which show what the requirements will be to attend to the top schools. It would also be fair to ask them how many students in his class have similar scores or are likely to have similar scores.

Also, as you have a boy, you should do a close comparison of how much homework the elite school requires. It is not unusual for elite secondary schools to require up to four hours of homework per night. It is the rare bright boy who does not find four hours per night a burden.

I have two sons. One went to an elite US private middle/high school for three years and did that homework--including an hour plus of math (busywork) homework per night. Though he started in the top Math group, he would not have made it inot the tippy top group. His best friend did not do calculus at that school depite earning a Math PSAT/SAT score in the 98th percentile. The tippy top group had the 99th percentile kids in there and those who earned top Math grades from 7th grade onwards.

We moved overseas and my son finished high school math with a year of calculus.

Meanwhile, with nearly identical Math talent as his older brother, my younger son started high school at the overseas, English style school. In a traditional English classroom, the teacher puts the problem on the board, explains the lesson in four or five minutes and then uses the rest of the hour to visit students individually, tutorial style. My younger son understood the Math lesson in the first five minutes and he did all the Math homework in the classroom--for four years. He started and remained in the top group, skipping the first year and completed Calculus in his junior year--which allowed him to do an independent programming project in his senior year. He earned the identical PSAT/SAT score as his brother--doing absolutely NO busy work for homework in high school. None.

One point does not make data make, but I prefer the English classroom and less homework for high school boys.

tokenadult · 01-01-2007, 12:01 PM

I went through this issue last year. I won't post any test scores here, but, yes, we got recruiting letters from boarding schools, and went through part of the application process for two of those. We also looked at a huge variety of local options, because our state has public school open enrollment (any student can enroll in any school district) and a statewide dual-enrollment plan for college-as-high-school. We finally ended up with our son in EPGY Online High School and really like that. One of my son's friends moved out of another part of our state to attend one of the boarding schools we looked at. He likes that. Different students prefer different trade-offs.

To maximize chances of admission at a highly selective college, my sense from two years of reading CC is that what one does BEYOND high school is of crucial importance. We'll know whether my son's strategy met his goals in about three years.

tokenadult · 01-01-2007, 12:05 PM

Oh, one more thought, "If ever you are by far the best, or the most interested, student in a classroom, then you should find another classroom."

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/R...A_Calculus.php

There are other helpful suggestions in the quoted article, which is posted on a very useful site.

parent56 · 01-01-2007, 12:05 PM

we are in Alabama. the school is about 7 hours away which would basically mean only being home for holidays. Currently he doesnt have to study to get A+ in everything. The math and science school requires about 2-4 hours per night based on students he has talked with. According to their stats approx 100 seniors received 12Million in scholarships last year vs. 1.4 Million at his current hs for about 300 kids. If he does choose an ivy league type school there is no way we could afford it without scholarships. My oldest went to college in NY and we didnt qualify for any aid so we are paying loans off for that now.
He is totally undecided, sees pros and cons to both.

cheers · 01-01-2007, 12:22 PM

If he pushes himself to read throughout high school and stays in the top Math courses, I don't see any reason why he could not earn top SAT scores (above 700 and above 1450 combined for Verbal and Math) and a high GPA--and get scholarship awards galore.

Those scholarships at the elite school are more about the level of ambition at elite schools--and knowing where to apply and how to apply than boosting an already extraordinary student. You can discover much of that information on college Confidential.

The trick will be keeping him on track in his hometown when he is surrounded by less ambitious classmates.

parent56 · 01-01-2007, 12:30 PM

that is one of my concerns as the local guidance counsellor has basically told me, that finding those scholarships would be up to us... her only advice was..."well when he takes his ACT he can have the scores sent to any school he wants"
other things i've looked at: His school only offers one language (spanish..2 classes) and in reviewing some colleges i already see some want more than one language. His hs does not offer any type of calculus in any grade vs 5 calculus courses and 4 languages at the other school.

tokenadult · 01-01-2007, 12:43 PM

The Web master of the Web site I recommended to you above grew up in Alabama and was admitted to Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford. You definitely could learn a lot at that site.

MSMDAD · 01-01-2007, 12:58 PM

Parent56, Welcome to CC! Please consider, given that you are looking ahead three years, that colleges like geographic diversity. I take it that the boarding school that is 7 hours away is not in Alabama, and you have to consider that there are not that many kids from Alabama that apply to top 25 schools (I don't want anyone from the South to flame me, so let me say that, yes, there are qualified kids from Alabama, but numerically there are likely to be less than in most other states). If your DS ends up in a boarding school in Texas, he might not be viewed as highly as a kid who went to school in Alabama and did well.
The other thing to consider is the National Merit program, which often leads to major scholarships. I do not remember exactly, but I think that if you are in a boarding school outside of your home state, they compare you to students in the state where the boarding school is located. Alabama has a relatively low cutoff on the PSAT for the National Merit Scholarship. Good luck to you - your son has a lot going for him.

Marian · 01-01-2007, 01:03 PM

As I see it, both choices have pluses and minuses when it comes to college admission. If your son stays where he is, he would have the advantage of being considered an outstanding student (leading to top recommendations, etc.) but would have the disadvantage of having to work with counselors who are not accustomed to working with students with his needs. If he goes to the specialized school, he would have much better counseling but would be competing with others of his own caliber, among whom he might not stand out.

Given this, maybe college admissions shouldn't be the most important factor in this decision. What does your son want? Would he be more comfortable living at home and being with his current friends? Or does he like the idea of going to a boarding school and being with his intellectual peers? Different kids have different tastes.

menloparkmom · 01-01-2007, 01:10 PM

EPGY was designed primarily for math and physics classes until this year. Your son would be able to advance as far as he wants to go using that program. As for scholarships, now that you have discovered CC, you will find that it can be the best resource for college scholarship info on the web- many parents are here to share what they have learned about the whole college application process, because CC was so helpful to them when they needed to learn what to do.

anxiousmom · 01-01-2007, 01:12 PM

Okay, is it just me here, or are we missing other more important issues???? Do you want your son to grow up 7 hours from home? Is he mature and able to handle living a quasi-grownup lifestyle? Are you (and he) willing to miss important years of bonding and loving and shared experiences? How will his siblings feel with him far away? I know there are holidays and all, but sending your kid away to school is.....sending your kid AWAY to school. My kids both would have done well at our state boarding math and science school - but it's not just about the academics; it's about having a family. Your kids are only young for a short time - there will be time enough for them to face the pressures of life later. (And, just anecdotally, I have a friend whose niece attended a math and science state school, and ended up stressed and "cutting" herself - found that the school left them to their own devices without much oversight, found college classes more stressful than high school classes, etc. )

parent56 · 01-01-2007, 01:23 PM

token/marian/msmdad:
actually the school is in alabama. we are at the top of the state near TN and the school is in mobile. and i dont think you are flaming the south at all. My older son graduated from hs in 2002 and only 2 of his graduating class went out of state. I checked the artofproblemsolving site and then asked my son if he was familiar with the competitions mentioned and he says that his school doesnt mention them Having gone to graduation ceremonies for years here, have never seen them mention National Merit Scholarships and certainly the gc didnt offer that information to me when i asked what programs, scholarships etc could he apply for or would she work with him on.
He does not particularly like the idea of leaving home and friends but he thinks that the school definitely has more to offer him than his current school. hates the idea of having to study but realizes at some point he has to learn how. Alabama has a pre-paid tuition program that we have for him, so tuition in state is covered. and we believe that he could get a scholarship to an in state school, just not convinced that we have the know-how for out of state schools
Oh one thing i forgot to mention, the school is totally free.. tuition room, texts etc.