Anyone elses kids seem overwhelmed by large class sizes?

[swimcatsmom]

My Ds first classes were yesterday. She is in some honors classes that are small (20 or less) but has 2 non honors classes that are 100+ . She went to a very small math/science school her last 2 years of HS - 60 in her graduating class. After the small very pressure heavy HS she wanted a big college where she was a 'number' not a 'name' but I think she is in shock a little right now. I'm interested to hear how other's kids adjusted. (I know - I worry to much - I just expected her to be all enthused after the 1st day instead of sounding frazzled).

[doubleplay]

Usually those big classes are purely lecture based survey classes. Usually entry level, introductory courses- not topics where there would be a lot of discussion involved. They will have the three big hall class meetings, and then a fourth class that meets in small groups to go over specifics/answer questions (those small sections are usually led by TA's). Many times, the students can even "watch" the big lectures on their computers or TV.

I actually used to enjoy some of the big classes. I don't know why- maybe because of all the new faces (I'm a people person) everytime I went to class?

[swimcatsmom]

They are chem and bio classes. The labs are in small groups. But that is another thing she is frazzled by - they are assigned in groups of 4 for labs and she is not used to having her grades depend on other people - especially people she is 'assigned' to and has no clue of their academic abilities. (she has done group work before but in HS got to choose her partners - though she did have a couple of experiences in her regular HS of doing everyone elses part of a project - probably the root of her worry). Just all new to her - I am sure she will adjust. I'm just doing the worrying mother thing.

[doubleplay]

My son took chem and bio in a big setting like that as well. But he also got involved in "study groups" with other classmates. VERY IMPORTANT to do this.

I don't know about the lab stuff. He did say this about grading curves...

His grade at any point was based on a curve of the class- that is, the mean score on any given test becomes a "C" and the rest of the grades follow a bell curve. So say on the first test everyone did poorly, but he did pretty good- he'd have an "A" at that point. As time went on, though, what constituted an A would change with every test. Typically he always started out with an A after the first exam because there was a larger pool of "average" and "below average" level students. But then all the kids in the lower half of the class would drop, since they all made Cs and below on the first test.

At that point, he is now being compared to the top half of students, and the curve gets tougher and tougher as the semester wears on. Typically by the last exam of the semester, the curve is brutal because only the best students are left to begin with, and everyone is pulling out all the stops to get the best grade possible on that that exam. So whereas a 90 might have been an A on the first exam, a 94 might be a B on the last exam.

So the moral of the story is, get the highest possible grade on the first exam, since it will be your best chance to do well. Don't squander that opportunity.

[swimcatsmom]

Thanks for the info on the curves - it is interesting - her original high school she never had to do big exams because students with As got to waive the finals. The school she went to the last 2 years had brutal tests and exams so she should be prepared for that. But the curve will be a new thing to her. I will have to ask her if they explained how that works there. I guess if the kids not doing well drop then it will solve the problem if any of her assigned partners are not very capable.

[originaloog]

Several comments about large classes. All of my large lecture classes were supplemented by small recitation sections where students could more easily ask questions about lecture content, class assignments etc. My son'f few lecture classes used the same format. Does your daughter's class have a recitation section?

Re labs. Yes most labs work in 3-4 student groups but in most cases each student is required to prepare their own lab report. My chem, physics, bio and microbio labs all worked in this way.

The key to the successful class is the quality of the instructor rather than the size of the class in most instances. And by next year the large lecture classes will be largely a thing of the past.

[swimcatsmom]

No - no recitation section just the labs. She was signed up for a history class that had a small recitation group but she switched to the bio class to try and make sure she gets all her required science classes done in a timely fashion. Hopefully all lab reports etc will be individual and the instructors will be good.

[abasket]

I remember being a bit overwhelmed by those large classes too. But after awhile, I also remember kind of liking having that one class where I just had to go listen and take notes - didn't have to worry about standing out, discussing, etc. But I can understand the shockeroo your D had that first day!!!

Re: group work. My kids have always hated group work - my older two are all A's type students and had a hard time doing group work where they had to rely on others to contribute/complete work. In the long run, I think this is a GOOD thing to have to adjust to. In the work world, you often have to rely on others to make a project go - the group work will give her a chance to exercise leadership skills, tact, motivating the group and dealing with all that is involved to make the end product happen.

[swimcatsmom]

Re: group work. My kids have always hated group work - my older two are all A's type students and had a hard time doing group work where they had to rely on others to contribute/complete work.

Sounds just like my daughter.

In the long run, I think this is a GOOD thing to have to adjust to. In the work world, you often have to rely on others to make a project go - the group work will give her a chance to exercise leadership skills, tact, motivating the group and dealing with all that is involved to make the end product happen.

Good point - she already seems to be taking charge a little. But I have to admit - love her to pieces but 'tact' is not her middle name!!

[abasket]

You made me smile swimsmom !

I know it's going to be tough to be on the receiving end of these phone calls in a couple of weeks myself - you SO want the first few days to run smoothly...!

[PackMom]

My S goes to a big u. with large science classes (250). I think he got more out of the labs and the review (recitation?) classes with the TA's. He always had a study partner for the homework and lab assignments. I think working with another kid was the only way to get through it successfully.

I went from a small nothing high sch. in the middle of nowhere to a big state U. with those big classes (Chem and Anatomy for me). I was overwhelmed but soon figured out that lots of other kids were too. We all just hung together and muddled through. All praise to the mighty curve...no one has ever been more happy than me and my "c" in organic chemistry!

[celloguy]

D picked a small, intense LAC. No TAs -- small classes, and all labs and conferences are with faculty. She sought this environment when narrowing down the college choices, and it seems to have been a good choice for her. (Princeton Review just gave her college #1 for classroom experience.)

[swimcatsmom]

celloguy - I thought a smaller school might be better for my D. But the HS she went to (a state math & Science residential school) was so small and the powers that be were in the kids business all the time (to a rather creepy degree) that she wanted the opposite for college.

abasket - post back in a couple of weeks - you are right I am so hoping everything will run smoothly. She has lived on campus a couple of weeks before classes sarted and it was much quieter - I think the sheer number of people is a little overwhelming right now.

packmom - I am sure she will adjust also - probably quicker than Mom will

[doubleplay]

swimcatsmom,
My son was the same way about wanting to be a "number". He is a social animal and being in a HUGE school is right up his alley- the kid doesn't know a stranger, and with 50K students, his college is a playground.

I don't know if the way his classes have curved is indicative of every school. I think in a big public college, where the kids can "declare" any major they want starting out, the school is basically trying to weed the bottom half out of certain majors. You can't have 50000 students all in premed, architecture, or engineering. So they whittle down the classes. It's actually not a bad scheme- not all those students are capable of doing the work and it's better to know in Calc I or Chem I that you're not cut out for all those higher level courses.

I'm surprised if she doesn't have a small group setting to go along with the large lectures.
Again, my son enjoyed studying with other folks (especially the girls I think). Tell your daughter to get in with some study groups- it's a good way to make friends, too.

[NewHope33]

swimmom - Your post brought back memories of freshman Chem at State U. It was taught in an auditorium and the class was larger than my entire HS! Six versions of each test were used so no adjacent test taker had the same questions. During introductions the Professor deadpanned "I aim for a mean of 50 so I get maximum dispersion of test scores."

Nonetheless I enjoyed this better than small classes where the "right answer" was essentially the answer the Professor favored. Study groups make the coursework go easier, and group labwork teaches wonderful lessons about choosing work partners! In short, I wouldn't worry too much about this. Your D will look back on the experience one day and smile!