2008 Presidential Scholars candidates list is up

rainmama · 01-17-2008, 08:25 PM

This is a government-sponsored award program that honors seniors and their teachers. The list of candidates was posted today: http://www.ed.gov/programs/psp/2008/candidates.doc

It might interest some of you data collectors because it shows schools and hometowns of each state's top 20 (or slightly more) male and female scorers on a single sitting of the ACT or SAT (M + CR only). The students with an * by their names are candidates for a special arts category award.

I have a couple questions for any parents or students with experience in this program: (1) would it be a good idea for my son to send colleges a note saying that he was nominated? Given that colleges already know his SAT scores, does this add anything to the admissions profile, or would they just be annoyed? (2) Are you glad you/your child took the time to prepare the application?

ricegal · 01-17-2008, 11:12 PM

Wow! I know five of the candidates from CA. Two are the children of close friends, two were classmates of my son in elementary school (one is still a classmate and a state level soccer player to boot), and one is a friend of my son's from Boy Scouts. Of course, they are all brilliant. There are three others who are from son's public high school. I feel sorry for my son having to compete with such kids.

tokenadult · 01-17-2008, 11:56 PM

Some familiar names (from math contests) on the list from Minnesota. Good variety of schools and hometowns.

Thanks for posting the link.

mountains · 01-18-2008, 05:07 AM

Thank you for posting - my S' best friend is on the list! He is an awesome kid.

mammall · 01-18-2008, 07:56 AM

My D is listed. I'm so sursprised by names not listed. We know several students with >2300 and/or 35 not on the list. It must be a very tough set of criteria. It seems as if I read somewhere that one boy and one girl will be chosen among candidates from each state to attend something in Washington, D.C this spring. Anyone know anything about that? And Rainmama, it doesn't seem to make any sense to notify colleges of the candidate status since that appears to be wholly based on test scores, which they already have. Sort of like NMSF. Just not much value added for very selective schools.

JHS · 01-18-2008, 08:08 AM

Meaningless list fun:

Thomas Jefferson: 21! That's amazing.
Exeter: 17. That's pretty amazing, too. Lots of them decided that they lived in New Hampshire, though.

The perennial battle of Hawaii: Punahou 13 - Iolani 12

West Anchorage High: 11
Stuyvesant: 11

MomOFour · 01-18-2008, 08:11 AM

I would think there would be more than 20 of a particular gender in some states who scored 1600 on the SAT. Anyone know the details on this? I thought that wasn't that unusual.

CountingDown · 01-18-2008, 08:14 AM

Is this based just on SAT scores? If so, the cutoff in our state had to be incredibly, incredibly high. I know of high 2300s not on the list.

midmo · 01-18-2008, 08:27 AM

MomOFour: The SAT I score (M and CR only) must be a one-sitting score. It doesn't matter how many times you took it, just that the qualifying score was from a single session.

The ACT is also used. In fact, SAT scores are converted into ACT scores for purposes of determining candidates, if I am not mistaken. (Subscores are added together, and the cutoff may be different for males and females.)

mammall, a 2350 and a 35 will not be high enough in most states to make the first cut. Yes, the prize is a one-week trip to Wash. DC. A teacher gets to go along. I believe family members must pay their own way.

newmassdad · 01-18-2008, 09:07 AM

To answer the OP's question, of course you should let colleges know. They may not realize where a score puts a kid otherwise, and they like to be able to discuss notable honors in admissions materials. They do track these things.

Other than that, I always wonder about the significance of such things. Sure, it is great PR for someone, just like being NM finalist. But, beyond that? If one looks at it from a psychometrics POV, then one must conclude that this is a meaningless distinction, in that statistically, nothing separates these kids from hundreds that are just a shade behind in score total. This is especially true when one considers test ceiling effects.

But please, don't let me throw cold water on a celebration! It IS an achievement, the "fame" is nice, so congratulations.

Let's hope some of these winners use their talents well in college and continue to win even more competitive national honors (the Udall, Truman, Goldwater, Marshall, Rhodes, Fulbright and such...)

emeraldkity4 · 01-18-2008, 09:36 AM

It is interesting. I noticed that that kids from Ds school are different than NMS, that I didn't expect.

newmassdad · 01-18-2008, 09:50 AM

ek4,

Why would that be a surprise? There is a tremendous amount of noise at the top score ranges of either the PSAT or the SAT, so to me it is not surprising that someone would do well enough to be a prez scholar candidate and not have made NM finalist, since they are based on different sittings of similar tests.

It has been a few years since I looked at the research published about the SAT, but I remember seeing one report that showed how much scores varied from test sitting to test sitting. This variation is one reason that kids, to their great shock, often see large drops in scores when they retake the SAT. Of course, this same random variation is one reason why retaking the test is such a valuable strategy as long as schools superscore. Doing a retake is kinda like buying a lottery ticket, but with better odds. Around 1/3 (if I recall correctly) of retakers come out well ahead.

momof3! · 01-18-2008, 09:53 AM

Just fyi, I believe that Presidential Scholars does not include anyone who opted out of having their SAT scores randomly forwarded--that is, if the student marked the "do not send" box on their SAT registration, the people doing the original cut for Presidential Scholars won't get the kid's name/scores.

Oh, privacy!!!!

emeraldkity4 · 01-18-2008, 10:13 AM

I didn't see my Ds overall scores change at all which was kind of interesting. She has taken SAT twice & one sitting her reading scores were higher, at the next her math scores- since the college combines the two she came out ahead

wjb · 01-18-2008, 10:24 AM

The cutoff varies from state to state, and it can be pretty brutal. I just spoke with Presidential Scholars and learned that in our state, the qualifying score for ACT was a total of 144 (36-36-36-36). That leaves out the 36 scorers who got there with scores between 35.5 and 36. ACT rounds up, so you can get a 36 composite with a 36-36-36-35, a 36-36-35-35 or a 36-36-36-34.