Revival of Middle Class Black Posters

[Shrinkrap]

Wait... what are we talking about ?

[Harmony2]

Dbate,

On the dating issue, I agree with the comments expressed by SMIA, FLVADAD, and others. As Shrinkrap stated, women of our generation do not take this issue lightly. I find it difficult when I see so many intelligent, AA women unable to find intelligent AA men. In any event, I wish you the best in finding love.

Dbate, my DS has also been teased by other AA students because of "not being black enough".May I suggest you find ways to serve the community.My DS started tutoring inner city children and realized his opportuinity to be an excellent role model and also how he could encourage the students to be their best. Perhaps if young intelligent men such as yourself, volunteer in the inner cities, AA children will begin to see it is cool to be an intelligent, high achieving AA.

[Dbate]

"As Shrinkrap stated, women of our generation do not take this issue lightly. I find it difficult when I see so many intelligent, AA women unable to find intelligent AA men."

May I ask why? I don't understand why it would be "difficult"? Why don't the intelligent AA women, just marry non-AA men, it seems like a logical course of action.

[Harmony2]

I believe that is happening for many AA women and as Milk and Sugar stated the real question is where to find true love? Answer? Anywhere you can.

[Shrinkrap]

Dbate, did you ever read post #31?
Here's a copy of part of it. There's more and there are links.

Here are the facts: "The Census Bureau confirmed black women's complaints that white women were more likely to marry black men than white men were to marry black women. In 2000, African-American men had white wives 2.65 times more often than black women had white husbands. In other words, in 73 percent of black-white couples, the husband was black and wife was white.

(This interracial gender gap is even sharper among black-white couples who cohabit without being married. Five times as many black men live with white women as white men live with black women.)

Although some commentators had predicted that this intermarriage disparity should be evening out, this 2.65 ratio is similar to the 2.54 ratio in 1990. (The invention of the "multiracial" category in 2000 makes direct "apples to apples" comparisons across time impossible.):2000 Census Shows Interracial Marriage Gender Gap Remains Large by Steve Sailer for UPI; dating disparity, black-white couple, white-Asian pair, husband wife, Hispanic, intermarriage, relationship, Is Love Colorblind?

In addition, by American society's norms, black men --including black men with dark skin and "African" features are considered extremely attractive and sexy. Black women's typical features -- kinky hair, large booty, broad features -- are considered ugly.

There have been threads in the general CC cafe about what races are most attractive. Posts that mentioned black women said things like the black women who were attractive were people like Beyoncee and Vanessa Williams -- women who typically were bi-racial and had features, hair, body builds similar to what is considered attractive in white women.

Many black women are strongly against black men's dating white women because -- due to higher than mainstream death rates and incarceration rates, there is a shortage of available black men. Add to that, men of other races tend not to date black women.

[TutuTaxi]

I am coming to this discussion late, but wanted to add my two cents. I grew up in Chicago but moved to the rural west 25 years ago. From my observations, there is more acceptance of interracial couples/dating in the west than in the east and Midwest. D’s HS is less than 5% AA – in her graduating class there were 3 AA girls and 1 AA boy. All of the girls dated (some serious relationship and others just friends) white boys. The 1 AA boy dated AA girls from lower grades.

D has been on campus 2 weeks and has been approached with offers of help from AA males, white males, and at least 1 east-Asian male. Frankly, H and I would prefer D not to date and instead spend all of her time studying or doing her ECs.

Dbate, date whomever you like.

[Plainsman]

Don't mean to start a controversy, Shrinkrap, but IMHO, Beyonce is definitely built like a black woman. That's not a bad thing; that's good. She does not have a white woman's body, IMHO.

Otherwise, I agree with your statistics.

I get the feeling several people posting on this thread have lived or do live in Minnesota, which is the Black-White interracial dating/marriage capital of America. California may have a higher percentage of mixed couples in general, but most are Asian-White. No place in the USA comes close to Minnesota for black-white.

In the suburban public schools my kids attended, biracial kids (a black biological parent and a white biological parent) outnumbered kids with two black parents by 3 to 1. It was amazing. Moreoever, an article published in the St. Paul Pioneer Press quoted some stats from the National Institute of Health that showed 40% of the black men in Minnesota who were married were married to white women. 40%! That compared to a national average of 7%. The rate of intermarriage between black women and white men was also the highest in the country at 14%. That compared to a national average of 3%.

When I moved there 22 years ago from the NYC metro area, I couldn't believe it. I was a young bachelor grad student. I was one of only two blacks in my graduate school class. Two! The other was also a brother (from Stanford). One might think we were lonely for female companionship. On the contrary, we couldn't go out to a club (white) without being hit on, something that never happened to me in the northeast. My classmate, who was better looking than me, got hit on everywhere: 7-Eleven, Byerly's, donut shops, Dayton's, McDonalds, and the suburban nightspots were ridiculous. I got hit on once walking out of a Blockbuster Video, of all places. A white lady in a white Lexus screeched to a stop. Powered down the passenger side window (in the parking lot in the burbs) and motioned me over to tell me how good I looked and asked what movies was I going to watch. She was tanned, bejeweled...a sales rep for some computer company. To make a long story short, she wanted to know if I was going to watch movies alone. I was married by then so i declined the invitation. I had many more incidents like that one, as did most of the black men I knew out there. White women were extremely aggressive toward "professional" brothers out there. Attractive white women. If you don't want your sons to date/marry white, don't send them to school in Minnesota.

No wonder there are so many biracial kids in that state.

Anyway, I enjoyed my years there. For the most part, people were very friendly. I'm thinking of sending my daughter back to Minnesota where she was born to go to Carleton.

[Dbate]

Shrinkrap, the problem with the statistics you post is that it uses a ratio as opposed to percent.
2.65 times higher seems like a lot, but it is not. 7% compared to 3% of interracial dating is not that significant at all. So 93% of married black men are married to black women and 97% of black women are married to black men, so the real gap is only 4%. So out of every 100 black guys 4 date white women, that means that the notion of white women stealing black men is errorenous.
What ppl mean by it is that white women steal the desirable black men, which in and of itself it rather presumptive. There is no guarantee that those four out of 100 are the most desirable, but rather I think ppl look to high profile black men: Tiger woods and the like and equate that to something larger which it is not. In fact high-profile black women date white men as well: Serena and Venus as well as Halle Berry. So the whole issue seems to be a mental as opposed to real one.

[TutuTaxi]

I get the feeling several people posting on this thread have lived or do live in Minnesota, which is the Black-White interracial dating/marriage capital of America. California may have a higher percentage of mixed couples in general, but most are Asian-White. No place in the USA comes close to Minnesota for black-white.

Plainsman, my brother lived in Minneapolis for several years and his experience was similar to yours. I don’t have any statistics but central and eastern Washington must be second to Minnesota in interracial couples. Unlike urban areas, where most of the couples are professional or upper middleclass – these families are mostly working class. I am no longer surprised to see an older white couple in the mall shopping with AA kids – I assume grandparents w/ grandkids.

One of D’s friends (white) told her she wanted to marry an AA because she wants to have beautiful children.

[Plainsman]

Dbate, you may be correct, except in Minnesota. 4 out of 10 married black men are with white women. The number of single black men dating white women is much higher. I moved from Minny only three years ago (job change). Single black women at the company where I worked hated Minnesota with a passion. Over the years many single sisters simply fled the place.

TutuTaxi, I think the common thread between Minnesota and certain parts of Washington might be ethnicity. Both have very high percentages of people of Scandinavian heritage. The highest in the USA. I think Nordic women don't get hung up about skin color, racial features, etc. in men as do white women of other ethnicities. They may even be attracted to the contrast. My cousin spent a few weeks in Denmark about 20 years ago and said he couldn't go out to a nightclub/disco without being surrounded by female attention.

Anyway, the Scandinavian thing is my theory and I'm sticking to it until someone can come up with a better explanation.

[Mamaof1]

I think I need to come back at a later time and read this discussion at a more leisurely pace. Just to throw my 2 cents in, all the "older" Black women reading this topic are not married, and/or coupled off. And, I may be atypical on this thread, as I am an "older" Mama, (46), raising my 1/2 Black American, 1/2 African 14 year old son, pretty much on my own. I must brag and say I am doing a wonderful job so far, however, I do worry that in my quest to assure that he receives a great education, I may have not equipped him enough on what he will face as a Black man living in the south, and in those darned "smart" classes where there are fewer Black students. (I am talking racism, dating, friendships, etc.).

[Shrinkrap]

"Otherwise, I agree with your statistics."

"Shrinkrap, the problem with the statistics you post is that it uses a ratio as opposed to percent."

Whoaa! Not mine! Just a copy and paste from someone else's post!


But I will add that even in California and in New York, my brother gets propositioned by white woman. I'm not sure how rational it is, but I think this is more likely than a black woman propositioning a white man. Perhaps it has to do with the likliehood of rejection.

[Dbate]

"I may have not equipped him enough on what he will face as a Black man living in the south, and in those darned "smart" classes where there are fewer Black students. (I am talking racism, dating, friendships, etc.)."

I live in the surburbs of Texas and there is not much racism in the more industrialized areas or area where people are more affulent.

[Mamaof1]

Dbate, we may look at life through different glasses. I may be a bit more cautious of people not of my race due to my upbringing. I chose to not raise my son with as much cautiousness, but I still question if I should have provided him with more information and/or more stories from my life regarding racism, racist attitudes, and "the Black Experience." I don't want to prejudice him, I want to spare him. I want to protect him. I don't want him to be naive regarding the world. I don't want to read about him in the papers, or see him in the news, unless it's positive. There is a saying from another time, "Partus Sequitur Ventrem." (The child follows the condition of the Mother). I have embraced this as a part of my history, (I am our family's genealogist).

In as much as I would like to agree that there is not much racism in more industrialized areas or where people are more affluent, I believe you still have much to learn. I have lived outside of the south. I was not born in the south. I am raising my son in the south, but he has access to the world. Racism exists and not only in less affluent, non-industrialized areas.

[milkandsugar]

Mamaof1, I really agree with you. I live in an affluent area of the northeast and racism is a live and well. The good thing about it is that the diversity and liberalism is more evident and the racism is more covert and underground. But believe me we see it here too. I've been around a long time and the younger people may not see it.I have had these kind of discussions with my D.