Revival of Middle Class Black Posters

[Triguena]

For some reason the previous thread is marked "closed" What does that mean?

New question
About to embark on "college tour" trip with S. Visiting a good range of small, medium and large colleges (all in Northeast). S is completely not interested in any questions of diversity, etc. and says "that is your generation, not mine". I remember colleges days when small Black population in my college had, let's call them "challenges."

Is it really "my generation"? Should the percentage of AA kids really not matter (the schools we are visiting range from 3% to 8%). Any body else face this issue? Does it really not matter?

Thanks!

[2collegewego]

It matters but it may not make a difference to your child. One of my kids said it didn't matter-- until they were one of the few black kids in an area of the country with few blacks. My kid lasted a year-- got tired of always having to represent. What I found is that sometimes, the white kids don't think of them. We attended an all-white church and my kids were excluded. The kids didn't mean to be racist; it's just that when they thought of people just like them, they didn't think of my kids.

At the same time, my kids prefer not to be in schools where the races are divided. I think they would prefer to be one of the few blacks than a black kid in a school where kids stick to their own.

[lje62]

My daughter's friend was visiting her over Christmas break. He goes to University of Maryland and had a black roommate for the first semester. He is a really friendly young man , but his roomate made it clear he wanted nothing to do with him because he " just doesn't like white people ". I hear that they are not rooming together this semester.
I was a little shocked that the roommate said this so bluntly..

[tokenadult]

This is a good question to raise. The two replies already posted show some of the complications in finding an answer. I keep forgetting that not everyone looks like my "biracial" son and really have no idea how onlookers categorize his "race." (I've heard a lot of wild guesses over the years, and so has my wife.) I guess I figure that acceptance and willingness to get along in the whole campus community count for more than percentages of the "same" kind of people. This surely must be an issue to explore during campus visits, but perhaps today things are different from the 1970s in many places.

[Northstarmom]

Neither S wanted to go to an HBCU because they wanted to go to a place with more racial diversity.

Older S, 24, otherwise didn't pay any attention to the racial diversity.

Younger S, 19, did pay attention to racial diversity. He wanted all kinds of diversity, and has always had friends of all races. He now attends a college where only 5% of the student body is black. He continues to have friends of all races, and is happy.

I think, however, that black females are more likely to be concerned about the racial ratio because it's not as easy for them to date outside of their race as it is for black males. Due to the shortage of black males, it's hard enough for black females to date within their race.

[lje62]

My daughter had a roommate her freshman year that came the Bronx..she is Puerto Rican and my daughter is white. They became fast friends and next yr will share an apartment along with her current roomate.
It would never occur to her to consciously choose a roomate that was just like her

Her friend went to a school in NC ( High Point, I believe ) and had the same issue with suitemates that were not happy sharing with a white girl from NJ.
Even though she tried to befriend them and invite them to various activities and events, they were unwilling to comply.
One might think it would be the other way around, but it was not.

[FLVADAD]

That's the kind of question where the answers will be as varied as the number of individuals reponding. In my opinion it definitely matters, albeit the reasons why may be somewhat different than in my generation. I also think current students, of many races, often confuse the notion of whether it "should" matter with whether it "does" matter.

[lje62]

In the area where our kids grew up, they had little exposure to diversity.
Yet , they were not raised in a atmosphere of any sort of racism either at home or in their school environment. It wasn't until high school that they went to school with any minority students. sheltered as they were, it didn't seem to cloud their judgement , or lack of .

[sgtpepper08]

my biggest question was always do people of different races and economic backgrounds interact or are the blacks/ hispanics/ asians all in a clique. i always asked black students this question. however, one thing i found was that many of the black people at the top lacs i visited/applied to were so used to be around only white people at their private and boarding schools they didn't know any different. and to be honest, being one of four black people in my class, i wouldn't be too shocked about a lack of diversity either. on the other hand, i found that the black students i talked to that were from predominantly black schools or even integrated schools tended to stay in a clique that included only black students. i was told by one girl that she just didn't trust white people, yet she was a school that is probably one the most homogeneous schools in the country. i don't know i guess it's complicated. no one complained of racism though except if you count the "you only got in because of AA" comment. i only heard of that once though.

[FLVADAD]

I think the "cliques" are inescapable in most cases, but even so, I think there's still a lot to be learned. My kids were never in the cliques, but managed to move in and out of such circles to the extent of really becoming cognizant of the various dynamics at play.

Even in places where there are elements of self segregation or clustering, I think it's important for students to be exposed to those situations.

[Consolation]

I mentioned this on another thread and was roundly lambasted for daring to do so, but the daughter of someone I know just decided to leave her southern LAC after one semester because of racism she encountered. She is Latina by birth, but adopted by a white family (in northern NE) as a baby. She apparently heard many remarks of a kind that she had not encountered before, directed at her as well as at other non-white students. She apparently feels that this was a kind of endemic-to-the-region kind of racism. I'm not saying that she is correct in her estimation, simply reporting her feelings. Certainly there are adults here that display the same attitudes. I gather that she had not encountered it in her peers before.

[Northstarmom]

" however, one thing i found was that many of the black people at the top lacs i visited/applied to were so used to be around only white people at their private and boarding schools they didn't know any different. and to be honest, being one of four black people in my class, i wouldn't be too shocked about a lack of diversity either. "

Interestingly, things were similar at the top colleges back when I went to college. A major reason why many black students hung out together was because many had grown up and gone to schools in areas where we were very much in the minority. College -- including top colleges where blacks were a very small proportion of the student body --- was for many of us the first opportunity to be around "many" black students.

For instance, I integrated the 1,500-student high school, middle school and elementary school in the Upstate NY town where I lived. When I entered h.s., I was the school's first black student. When I graduated, there were 4 more, one of whom was my brother.

"I mentioned this on another thread and was roundly lambasted for daring to do so, but the daughter of someone I know just decided to leave her southern LAC after one semester because of racism she encountered."

That kind of unfortunate experience can happen anywhere. I know a Cuban-American woman from Miami who says that one of the most painful experiences in her life was when she went to a high school debate tournament that was hosted by Harvard. An adult participant who didn't realize the student was Hispanic (the student is white, with green eyes and red hair) made very disparaging remarks about Cubans.

Having lived in the Northeast, New England, Midwest, West and South, I've encountered racism (as well as really good people) all over this country.

[2collegewego]

I don't know that all areas of the country are the same. In some areas of the country, for example, there are plenty of blacks. In other areas, there aren't any. So sometimes a kid can unknowingly step into a vacuum where they truly are one of the only black people a lot of students know.

I also think that some of the kids on this forum are mixed-race and that has its own issues. A kid who is mixed race may feel particularly torn if a school is polarized, depending on how he/ she was raised. They may feel a little lost in a school with strong back traditions because they don't know what Jack and Jill is and they don't want to choose between a white and a black greek group. For them, it may be easier to be at a school with a smaller black population because, in the absence of such organizations, they may feel less pressure.

[Shrinkrap]

There is a generational divide on this issue. I think it was Super Mom I Aint who posted a link on the "closed" thread (Tokenadult; do you know what happened there? BTW, I will now view your posts differently knowing you have a biracial kid. I guess thats prejudice!) to some intriguing study from Duke I think, that looked at comfort level of Black students among other Black students and among the majority as a function of how old they where when "exposed" to the majority culture. I'm looking for it.

[foolishpleasure]

Echoing Flvadad and 2college - - racial diversity is important, but more important to some than to other black students, often for different reasons. (Also, Flvadad - - you hit the nail on the head w/ "doesn't" vs "shouldn't.")

I agree that girls are more likely to seek a diverse campus than boys. Dating is certainly a factor (way easier for boys to date cross-racially; black-male/white-female couples long pre-dated and signif outnumber the black-female/white-male couples). But sports play a role too, not only providing an oppty for males of different races to socialize together as members of the same peer group, but also confering status on team members (a very big deal at my brother's alma mater - Notre Dame).

I would also suggest that the URM cliquishness cited in earlier posts is not all one way. As 2College noted in post #2, the White kids at church didn't intend to be exclusive or racist - - they just didn't think of the black kids. A friend of mine who is bi-racial (black/Asian) had a similar experience w/ an Asian "friend" of hers. The Asian friend was recounting some incident, explaining that she was "the only Asian in the room and none of my friends were present." My bi-racial friend burst into tears stating, "I was there. I'm Asian and I thought I was your friend."

Similarly, when I was in college, one student asked why all the black students sat together. I responded "we're not sitting together any more than the White students are." And in fact, our "black" table tended to be the intergrated table because there were two or three White friends who routinely joined us for dinner.

One area where I noticed considerable segregation on campus - - Greek life. Even on predom White campuses the frats and sororities are almost exclusively White (even though there are no black frats drawing the urm students). This was one of the reasons my older D refused to consider any southern schools. Younger D, for whom diversity is more of an issue, is happy to consider southern schools, but only those w/ large (9%+) populations.

Finally, I agree w/ N'starmom that one can encounter racism pretty much anywhere. There are, however, differences (1) in degrees and (2) official response (check out threads comparing Smith College's response to "blackface" incident earlier this year to other schools'responses to similar incidents).