Sat Ii

[Marian]

What Subject Tests your daughter needs depends on what she plans to study.

If she is planning to go into science or engineering, she will probably find that some of the schools she applies to will require Math II and one of the sciences. If it's engineering, it may be specifically a physical science (meaning not biology).

If she is planning to major in other things, she may still find that some schools want a Math test. But many schools only want any 2 tests in two different areas (e.g., one history and one science would be OK, but two sciences would not be). A very few schools require or recommend 3 Subject Tests in 3 different areas. I think Harvard, Yale, and Georgetown are on this short list. I'm sure other people here know of others.

One nice thing: Among the schools that require 2 or 3 tests but do not specify which ones, almost all say that they use the 2 or 3 highest scores in the admissions process. So if, for example, your daughter takes the World History test this year and is dissatisfied with her score, she does not necessarily have to study that subject more and retake the test. She could simply choose to take 2 or 3 other Subject Tests later on.

[LIMOMOF2]

My D's AP Euro teacher recommended that the students not take the World History SAT II and that they take the US History SAT II after taking APUSH. She said they didn't cover enough world history in AP Euro and that it would mean a lot of extra studying. According to her, the US History SAT II is much easier to study for - one country, shorter timespan - than world history. Her reasoning makes sense to me.

I was wondering the same thing about the math SAT II, so thanks for asking that question. My D is also a sophomore completing Math B. So far, she has only taken the Bio SAT II (freshman year) and she is debating on whether or not to take the chem SAT II this year.

[twinmom]

The Math 2 has a much better curve than the Math 1 SAT II. Most kids who can do well on the PSAT/SAT math section can do very well on the Math 2. I definitely agree about the US History SAT II.
LIMOMOF2: If your daughter did well on the Bio, there's no need to take the Chem. (Disclaimer: Neither of my kids took the SAT II Chem.)
That being said, my kid found that the Physics SAT II correlated nicely with AP Physics and thus surpassed the (fine) score achieved on the Bio SAT II (which does not have a very good curve.)
The curves on these tests really are a big factor.

[Marian]

LIMOMOF2: If your daughter did well on the Bio, there's no need to take the Chem. (Disclaimer: Neither of my kids took the SAT II Chem.)

Not true if she is planning to apply to engineering schools. Some engineering schools require an SAT Subject Test in a physical science. Chemistry counts. Biology doesn't.

[twinmom]

Ooops, Marian, that may be true. Didn't realize that.

[zoosermom]

The little lamb is planning to study classics (medeival studies is the back-up) and is looking at the likes of Bryn Mawr, Mt. Holyoke, Barnard, Rhodes, Villanova so far.

[Marian]

Every college that I've ever encountered has information about its test requirements somewhere on its Web site, usually in an FAQ in the admissions section of the Web site.

For example:

Application Instructions

Mount Holyoke College :: First-year FAQ

Barnard College Admissions

Rhodes College | Applying to Rhodes

Office of Admission FAQs - Villanova University

It looks as though some of the colleges on your daughter's list want SAT Subject Tests, while others don't. Don't let your daughter be intimidated by Bryn Mawr's suggestion that she take a foreign language SAT Subject Test as one of her two since a high score could satisfy a graduation requirement. If she does not think she would score well on that test, she can wait to take it until the spring of her senior year and submit the score only to Bryn Mawr. That way, the other colleges would never see it, but Bryn Mawr would have it available for placement purposes if she ends up attending that school.

[zoosermom]

I'm very glad I posted the question. I would never have thought of some of these suggestions. I'm going to tell her to check out prep books and decide whether to take SAT II World this year or US next year after APUSH and then decide which English. Do you think it would be possible to substitute bio in place of a math? She did well in honors bio and will take IB bio with the AP exam next year. The thing about that is that the teacher is D's particular mentor and I think she could do really well on that. What do you think? Does the combo of one history, one english and bio seem generally ok?

[Rachacha]

My D got the same advice as LIMOMOF2's did last year, took AP Euro, but did not take the SATII, is taking the US History one this year since she is taking APUSH. Marian is also right about the Chem vs Bio thing, which is why my D took AP Chem first and will take the Chem SATII, saving AP Bio for senior year. D was also told that if you are taking Pre Calc and got at least a 65 on the Math PSAT, Math2 should not be a problem (like the idea of a better curve).

[Marian]

zoosermom, you keep referring to two English tests.

There is only one English SAT Subject Test. It is in Literature.

SAT Subject Tests - College Admission Tests - Register Online

You may be mixing up the SAT Subject Tests with the AP Tests. There are indeed two different AP English courses and tests, AP English Language and AP English Literature.

[zoosermom]

"You may be mixing up the SAT Subject Tests with the AP Tests. There are indeed two different AP English courses and tests, AP English Language and AP English Literature."

Yes I was. Thank you!

[CountingDown]

Zoosermom,
DS1 took the World History SAT-II last spring (right after the AP exam). He used a couple of SAT-II and AP books -- I looked through them and there is very little overlap between World and Euro. It would involve lots of extra studying, and World SAT II MC questions are pretty specific and not very Euro-centric. A general background would not be helpful. Physics has a nice curve -- best among the SAT-II science exams -- DS1 reviewed from an AP Physics book and did very well.

DS2 is not a math guy (62 Math in PSAT as a soph taking it cold, but tends to test very well with prep) -- but he is taking Math Level II in June, at the end of pre-calc. Getting 85% of the questions right yields a *very* nice score. He's likely a history/bio major, so the math isn't critical, but it does show he's not afraid of taking the test and going for a good score. We're kind of kicking ourselves for not having DS2 take the Bio SAT-II last year after his pre-IB course. We didn't know until it was too late how closely it aligned. DS2 is taking AP USH this year and will take the SAT-II in May. Expect him to hit that one out of the ballpark, as this is his thing.

[jgmom]

If my freshman son is taking (regular -- not honors, not AP) Biology this year, should he take the SAT II Bio test?

[Marian]

Except in cases where kids MUST take particular SAT Subject Tests because they are required for admission to particular colleges or programs, the decision about which tests to take should be based on

1. Whether the kid does well in the subject

2. Whether the school's curriculum in the subject is closely aligned with the curriculum assumed by the SAT Subject Tests.

The only way to find out about #2 is to ask around at the school. Did previous students in course X do well on this particular SAT Subject Test? Is the curriculum a good match for the test?

Surprisingly often, the curriculum is NOT a good match for the SAT Subject Test simply because the people who design curricula have a lot of different needs to fulfill, and helping out the small number of kids who take SAT Subject Tests is way down the list. This happened at my daughter's high school with Honors Physics. The teacher announced to the students on the first day that some of the topics on the SAT Subject Test in Physics were not included in the county-mandated curriculum that he was required to teach. Students who wanted to take that Subject Test would have to study those additional topics on their own (and the teacher offered guidance on how to do this).

In fact, schools do all sorts of funny things with curricula.

zoosermom, in terms of the SAT World History Subject Test and the AP Euro course (which don't seem, on the surface, to be a good match), it is possible that your school has added topics to AP Euro in order to meet state or Regents requirements and that, with this added material, the course is a good match for the SAT World History Subject Test. It is also possible that the person who sent you that notice doesn't know what he or she is talking about. A bit more investigation would be in order (and definitely, have your daughter try a practice test). You may also want to investigate how well other courses that your daughter will be taking match the expected coverage for the SAT Subject Tests. It may be that even though the match between AP Euro and SAT World History is not perfect, it is better than some of the other available options.

[LIMOMOF2]

Twinmom, D did do well on the Bio SAT II, but not an 800 - so she plans to retake it after she takes AP Bio next year. She isn't sure what she wants to major in yet, but engineering is a possibility which is why she is thinking of taking the chem SAT II. She said she'll take some practice tests next month and then decide. She is very nervous about it though.

Marian, thanks for your advice. I think D is considering the chem test because she won't be taking AP physics until senior year and by then it will be too late if she wants to take the physics SAT II. I was very appreciative of the info you shared about the math SAT IIs as well. D's school does a pretty good job of keeping the kids in the honors classes informed about these things, but nobody there has mentioned the math test yet (and now I know why).