11th hour career guidance for hs senior

[CountingDown]

Ah, you emptied your mailbox! Just PM'd you...

DS visited Caltech this fall and sat in on a philosophy class, as he wanted to see what the humanities are like there. He pronounced it "too mathy." Coming from him, that was a stunner. Caltech has five quarters of physics...and it starts with a co-requisite of MV/DiffEq. That part doesn't scare him -- it was, as he put it, the "humanities as an afterthought" that bothered him.

I don't know that a counselor is going to be able to help your D much between now and the end of April -- it's going to be a matter of her listening to her heart and seeing where she fits. The career path will come as she heads into her major and decided what she wants from there. Right now, I think it's about trying on different experiences and ideas to see what clicks.

And gee, Yale and Caltech are about as different as they come!

[mathmom]

By the way, my kids are still talking about how yummy the pizza was at our lunch at Chandler Dining Hall at Caltech, and I had a grilled salmon that was cooked perfectly to order. You won't get that at Yale. (I don't believe Caltech dinners are as good though.)

[A.S.A.P.]

Wait. Mathmom, you do know that New Haven has great pizza, don't you?

Such diverse options! She really has to visit before she can choose. If she does love the humanities as well as the sciences, and isn't sure in which direction she will eventually choose, I'd try to steer her to the one that has the broadest curriculum and widest range of courses where she could explore her interests. That would be Yale.

I must confess my DD graduated from Yale last year--gifted writer, science lover, ended up in the social sciences. I also think that New Haven is a much better college town than Pasadena. Cars are not necessary as they are in Los Angeles (my home). Yale students have so many extracurricular options and meet diverse students with an amazing range of talents. Caltech excels in what they do, but if you are not fairly certain you want a hard science education, Yale would be a much safer choice.

[mathmom]

New Haven has good pizza, but not Yale.

It seemed to me cars were less necessary in Pasadena than they were 20 years ago when I lived there. Lake Avenue shopping is an easy walk from the Caltech campus. But I agree LA is a lot more fun with a car - especially if you want to take advantage of the beach, the mountains and the desert parks and the great museums. (Which we did.)

I agree Yale, sounds like a more likely fit, but there has to be some reason this student applied to Caltech.

[JHS]

Somewhere I had gotten the impression that mammall's daughter had been accepted at Stanford, too. That's sort of an interesting compromise between Cal Tech and Yale -- like Yale, an excellent full service university that is world-class in many disciplines with a diverse student body that's large enough to support lots of different communities, but somewhat more math/science oriented than Yale and, like Cal Tech, on a lovely suburban California campus. (Not a point in its favor, in my book, but I recognize that many others would disagree.) And, at Stanford, when you take the train to go somewhere, you end up in San Francisco, not L.A., which is a huge advantage. (Let's not even talk about New Haven.)

Not that it will make any difference, but I would encourage you NOT to visit. The differences between Yale and Cal Tech are massive, as everyone says. Visiting will muddy the waters, and will give mother and daughter a zillion vivid, random impressions of specific students (and specific dining hall meals) that will NOT really give a sense of what it would be like to be a student there. Neither would be a bad choice at all, and whichever one she goes to, she will discover over a relatively short period of time what she likes best and what she wants to avoid, how she wants to live there. The strengths of each university will entice her in directions she wouldn't have gone at the other. The students who are there generally love both. Surely it doesn't take a visit to decide whether she wants a largish, comprehensive, East Coast, urban, humanities-strong university where 25% or more of the undergraduates are involved with music or drama, or an intimate, intense, elitist tech college in suburban southern California.

Oh, but if you do visit Yale, by all means eat a pizza at Pepe's on Wooster St. The pizza index is going to favor Yale all the way, even if you have to go half a mile to get it. (And if you think the Cal Tech cafeteria pizza is an adequate substitute . . . that's where you belong.)

[theoneo]

In my opinion, such a field-specific school as Caltech should only be pursued by the most dedicated students to science and engineering; a student who isn't completely dedicated to those fields shouldn't matriculate at such a school. Also I would point out that the student bodies at the two schools are vastly different - in terms of social scene, campus life, number of undergraduates, etc.

However, if your daughter has gotten into Caltech and Yale already then I assume Caltech was EA and she got a likely letter from Yale? If that's the case then she'll definitely have more acceptances coming her way in a couple weeks so wait for everything to come in before making a decision!

[bookworm]

A Caltech mom here, so I'll throw in some tidbits.
I think it isimportant to visit. My S went a week after Prefrosh, so he missed some of the silliness. He did spend a lot of time in classes and in the dining hall. He liked the House system. Like in Harry Potter, each prefrosh has a week to spend time in each house before selection process. The girls tend to choose a few Houses, sometimes because one of them has lots of private rooms. There is a sister/brother feel to the bond they develop over the years, especially doing problem sets.
Being such a small school, everyone can get involved in ECs. No one is cut from sports. My S has held various leadership positions that I doubt he could have obtained in a larger school. Research oportunities are plentiful. My S has earned all his living expenses, with jobs paying $35/hour. Even though he could have done internships away during summers, he chose to remain in Pasadena.
Pasadena, especially Old Town, is easy to walk to, and shuttle buses from campus run every 20 minutes. The area is full of restaurants. S has enjoyed movie premiers. He ventures out to the beach and students also go skiing nearby.
I'd never chose Caltech if wanted to major in Humanities. Still, kids usually take 1 soc science/humanities class each term. Other than philosophy, he's really enjoyed the classes.
PLEASE pm me for more info.

[2blue]

Another pro-Yale point I thought of... This one is compliments of one of my son's friends who is a college freshman this year. He came back absolutely dying to talk to my son about an interest they share. It turns out that while his college is perfect for his major, he has had trouble finding friends who share his interests outside of the major. At Yale your daughter would be able to make science-y friends and fuzzy friends.

Whatever she decides, it is a nice problem to have.

[ellemenope]

Science and math-minded D had a similar choice--between Harvard and MIT. She picked H because she was intrigued with the many really interesting non-science/non-math classes listed in the catalog.

[katliamom]

Isn't Caltech one of the schools (I think UofChicago too) where students get coupons, etc. to go out? In other words, have to be given INCENTIVES to stop studying and go socialize??

I say Yale. If what she wants is a well-rounded undergraduate experience.

[madbean]

First, congrats to your D for her amazing talents and hard work which led her to this luxurious predicament. As you asked about career guidance and testing with a view towards helping D plan her future and using potential careers to inform her choice of schools, I have some thoughts --although I am no "wise one". I am, however, a researcher at heart and I can see the temptation to get all the data one possibly can before making such a weighty decision--even if that means trying to predict an elusive future.

But that might not be the best way to go, even if those tests could be proven to be reliable. Some students find the thrill of college is that it's a time for self-exploration and the spontaneous and somewhat random ops for personal discovery that pop up as a student's life unfolds there. No one can predict the chance encounters and deep conversations, the profs who spark a flame in areas she had only had vague interests, the research ops that come her way, the new friends who invite her to participate in their community service projects or audition for an improv group that lead her in an entirely new direction. And so on.

Career predictions based on testing at this point in her life might have the unfortunate side effect of narrowing her wide-open view. Sometimes we really crave those answers, but I think that narrowing of focus will come more meaningfully (is that even an adverb?) as she lives the next few years in those richly intellectual environments and watches her deepest interests evolve and reveal themselves.

As other posters have suggested, both CalTech and Yale will offer brilliant student bodies and profs and classes, among either of which she will find her way to happiness. A broader curriculum might give her the most options, and the type of students might provide her with the most comfortable social life in which to discover herself. But, if all else fails and the tea leaves are murky, it may be time to pick the college based on the best pizza after all.

[Marian]

For the student with multiple interests, not all of which are in science/engineering, I think Yale is the better choice.

But wait a few weeks. A third and even more suitable option may pop up.

[nngmm]

You really can't go wrong with Stanford or Yale. And if the weather is a consideration at all, Stanford is the way to go...

Caltech is different, and you better be sure you want to be in that kind of environment before committing to it.

[mammall]

I'm just overwhelmed with the posts full of insights and great advice. Have printed it all off and will share with DH and DD tonight. Thank you, all.

[bookworm]

So many interesting posts, and expect your D will have more acceptances that will make the waters murky but inviting.

Just thought I'd caution one to think that Caltech kids need incentives to socialize. I never heard of "coupons". My S is pleased that meal plan doesn't incude weekends,so kids don't feel guilty about going out to eat. The Houses sometimes plan weekend parties, where they build mazes or pirate ships in the courtyards or just barbecue. For some kids, its a nourishing & exciting place to spend 4 years. As nngmm wrote, it is different from Yale, and Yale is quite diferent from Stanford.