Wall Street Journal: How Involved Should Parents Be in College Admissions? - Page 5

oregon101 · 03-26-2008, 12:31 AM

goodness-rereading (long day) it sounds like I am saying these young men are fine without parental help-what I am really saying is that because they did not have help they have ended up with no direction and only 2 year degrees. Both were quite capable of any good college but did not have that forward motion that parents can provide for those kids that need it. I went through all of this 7 years ago with a DD who had her own momentum. But now with my DS I am finding it a slow uphill naggy naggy situation.He is just as capable as she was... so- I do think it must vary from kid to kid and some just need that extra help.

shawbridge · 03-26-2008, 02:34 AM

I agree with oregon101. It depends. Some kids may need no help in organizing the process of applying to college. But, some kids who are strong academically may not be strong organizationally and if they have to apply to a largish number of schools, they may need some real help. IIRC, studies of brain maturation show among the last parts of the brain to mature and be fully functional is the pre-frontal cortex, which is involved in decision-making and executive functioning. This maturation can take place at ages 17, 18, 19.

As a result, someone who has the intellectual horsepower to be at a competitive school may need organizational help at application time but will mature out of that need. Given that the organizational deficit is short-term, I see no reason to think that organizational help is a bad idea. In contrast, instead, if the only way a kid could appear academically capable of succeeding at a high-end school was because of academic rather than organizational parental support, then parental support would be folly and likely damaging to the kid to send him/her to a school at which he/she is likely not strong enough academically. There's probably not quite as fine a line in some cases but if one thinks the deficit is going to go away with normal maturation, I don't see an issue in providing that kind of support.

That said, the decision of a parent to quit a job in order to help seems pretty extreme. That is a function of the absurd hothouse of prestige-seeking parents. New York is the ultimate version of that. As I mentioned in my earlier post, when my wife was pregnant with our son in NY, people advised us to get on the list for the "right" pre-school then that would increase the chances of the "right" private school that would increase the chances of going to Harvard. I think one of the things that brought down Sandy Weill at Citibank was that he donated $1 MM on behalf of Jack Grubman, an Smith Barney analyst, so that Grubman's kids could get into the 92nd Street Y pre-school. (Don't hold me to the exact details but I think that was the gist of it). If you are willing to ask the CEO of your company to donate $1 MM so that your kid can go to the "right" pre-school, if your wife had a job (no idea in Grubman's case), why not have her quit the job to get him into the "right" college? I think the main point is that in some places, the hypercompetitiveness has become ludicrous.

NBZ · 03-26-2008, 04:24 AM

About quitting jobs so as to become eligible for financial aid, isn't it true that colleges recalculate their financial aid every year? Which means that quitting your job during the application period only guarantees you financial aid for the first year. Unless of course you quit permanently

jnm123 · 03-26-2008, 07:56 AM

Before I went through this process the first time four years ago with D1, I would have thought someone insane to quit their job to help with the apps, or to even advise in a hands-on capacity. But it was tough then and now, 4 year hence with D2, it's probably even more of a winding road, certainly more competitive.

I think the advent of the Common App has helped a lot, but if your child is planning on applying to multiple LAC's, Ivies, or even the 'hot' college du jour, be prepared to jump through whatever hoops each college says to complete the app and make your kid look good to the adcoms. I remember Duke's app being like a test in itself.

Without being branded as a helicopter parent (probably by other quasi-helicopter parents!), the main 3 things I did for D1 were research (to narrow down choices), scheduling & proofreading. It's a rare 17-year-old that can grasp the nuances of each university's process and can analyze the long-term possibilities of each one, especially when EC's & homework take up whatever free time the student has.

Besides, it's my money that's going towards the cost, which in my eyes justifies any help I give my kid.

kitkat82 · 03-26-2008, 08:01 AM

Well, then I too am a helicopter mom. #1 son and I did alot of research for #2 - gave him lists of schools to look at - and we did alot of the preliminary screening. I set up the "tour" and made sure we maximized our time, and set up a secondary tour that he took with his dad - did all the scheduling for that.

When it came to proofreading, I did the first pass. #1 son did the final pass and occasionally ex hubby did a review. My son's essays were his own though - and not always what I would have chosen - but he did do a great job and exceed my expectations.

When it comes to keeping track of deadlines, that is definitely my job. For the past 6 months, #2 would get up at 5:30 AM for swim practice, and return home by 7:30 PM. Not alot of time for dealing with all the stuff that must be dealt with.

Many of my friends thought I was crazy and controlling and way too involved. But - their kids did not have the stats my kid had - and did not apply to the types of schools mine did. They applied to two or three local universities and that was that.

CTTC · 03-26-2008, 08:24 AM

Sorry, but any parent who condones a child regularly getting 4-4.5 hours of sleep/night is not looking out for the health of that child.

shawbridge · 03-26-2008, 08:38 AM

Like jnm and kitkat, I am starting to do research which is complex in my son's case, am already working on test scheduling for remaining tests and will help with other scheduling as well, and will undoubtedly be called upon to proofread. Like kitkat, it seems pretty obvious that the essays should be the kid's and not mine so I'll stop at proofreading -- but that has never been an issue. The question here is how much time this will take. I don't think it is small, but it shouldn't be a full-time job. If my daughter, now a freshman, turns out to have more organizational skills or more time, I'd probably pull back on the scheduling. But, I'd expect to be involved in the research and proofreading. It depends on the kid.

I don't know about 4-4.5 hours a night of sleep, CTTC. However, I can see lots of kids with full EC schedules (sports and other stuff) plus a full, challenging courseload which requires many hours of homework a night. Not clear how much sleep is happening.

NJ_mother · 03-26-2008, 11:29 AM

We forbade internet access except for school (I know how to check where she's been and the computer is mine anyway) and enforced 11 pm bedtime for D#2. Doing this helped her hone her search skills, kept her off Facebook and chat stuff, got her to organize her life so she could do the ECs plus work 2 part-time jobs (required by DH and moi if she's to go to dream school she got into). In turn, I worked with school and GC to be sure accurate transcript and nice recs went out on time, got up at 6 am to drive her for Sunday ACT (we are Sabbath-observant) and listened to revised essays as needed. If that makes me a HELLicoptering mother, my shoulders are broad enough to bear it.

Newjack88 · 03-26-2008, 06:35 PM

oregon101:
No one is saying that parents should not be involved in their kid's life. There's a difference between teaching a kid responsibility and hiring a $20,000 a year college counselor.

NJ_mother:

Quote:

We forbade internet access except for school (I know how to check where she's been and the computer is mine anyway) and enforced 11 pm bedtime for D#2. Doing this helped her hone her search skills, kept her off Facebook and chat stuff, got her to organize her life so she could do the ECs plus work 2 part-time jobs (required by DH and moi if she's to go to dream school she got into).

Uhhh...? Realistically there are always going to be distractions in life. What better time than childhood, when there are fewer consequences, to find the right mixture of distractions and work?

Also, just curious, what does your daughter do for fun? Does she have any interesting hobbies?

Parents:
Was there a such thing as a "helicopter parent" when you all were growing up? It's going to be interesting to see how much damage this sort of parenting behavior will have on my generation once we enter the work force.

1of42 · 03-26-2008, 06:42 PM

I suspect a lot of parents here underestimate the ability of their children to deal with the college application process. Whenever I hear something like "Yeah, but with my kid's ECs and homework and sports and blah blah blah" I sigh.

sybbie719 · 03-26-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Was there a such thing as a "helicopter parent" when you all were growing up?

No, but also there was no such thing as spending close to 200,000 to attend a 4 year school. While my D did her own college application stuff, I saw my role as and I was in charge of the financial aid and doing all of the research regarding how much it would cost our family, filing the FAFSA, CSS profile, taking care of the IDOC, breaking down the actuyal out of pocket cost and asking for a financial review when D narrowed everything down to 2 choices. While she looked at schools that met her need, I looked at the business of making this a financially feasible option for our family.

I just got finished reading the FA thread, which colleges gave you disappointing FA offers, and the one theme that I see in all of the post is that I think many of the families (parents and kids) did not do their due diligence as far as the money was concerned.

rocketman08 · 03-26-2008, 06:58 PM

I think it's certainly very good for parents to be involved with the process, but quiting ones job to command some sort of precision military style operation is certainly going a BIT overboard to say the least.

Parents aren't going to be there in college to be the personal assistant for their child when managing projects, assignments and day-to-day scheduling so the student needs to largely be able to do that themselves. Afterall they are, almost, adults.

I think the best role for parents is as a mentor through the process. Someone to bounce ideas off, discuss pros and cons of various options and someone to stand on the sidelines and make sure things progress forward, but they shouldn't be in command and running the whole operation... that's the job of the student.

Newjack88 · 03-26-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

I think the best role for parents is as a mentor through the process. Someone to bounce ideas off, discuss pros and cons of various options and someone to stand on the sidelines and make sure things progress forward, but they shouldn't be in command and running the whole operation... that's the job of the student.

For sure. Also, I think that handling Financial Aid and cost issues, like sybbie719 did, is also what a good, reasonable parent should do.

LIMOMOF2 · 03-26-2008, 07:03 PM

sybbie, I think I will be playing the same role you did when my D is ready to apply to college. I've already started doing FA research - but I may PM you for advice at some point in the future. Just thought you'd appreciate the advanced notice...........lol.

Humbert · 03-27-2008, 12:32 AM

Frankly, if parents want their children to be successful, I think it's far more important to help them develop good work habits, work through adversity, and become indepedent, even if they risk getting into a less prestigious school than if the parents had done everything for them. Of course, that's not to say there isn't a very large middle ground between overbearing parenting and absent parenting.